About those Electric Cars…

[Ernst]

Found more information this morning on the evolving battery technology for Tesla and the projected replacement costs. Certain think it makes the point that we've been discussing. What's missing from the cost estimates is the expected number of labor hours required plus no mention of any disposal cost. Bottomline is a significant recurring costs that owners should plan for when assessing the life cycle cost.

Over more than 15 years of manufacturing, Tesla has used many lithium-ion battery configurations in its vehicles. The 18650-style cell, 18 mm broad and 65 mm tall, was used in the original Roadster and later Model S models. A Model 3 or Model Y may have cells in the 2170- or 4680-style, depending on where the cars get manufactured. In the first quarter of 2022, about half of all Tesla cells manufactured were of the 4680 design and used the new (LFP) chemistry. 

Tesla battery replacement cost varies depending on the labor and parts needed. Typically, the most basic battery replacement in tesla costs between $13,000 and $14,000. For the Model S premium sedan, replacing a Tesla battery costs around $13,000-$20,000. Model 3 entry-level sedan and Model X premium SUV battery replacement can cost at least $13,000 and $14,000 respectively. Also, you may have to pay around $20-200 for replacement parts like wiring and connectors. The labor charge may cost you nearly $175 per hour. Always be ready to shell out a few more dollars in additional labor charges if the repairs are complex or have any problems with the replacement.

 

[Rodburner]

Makes me glad I quit being a “car” guy when I couldn’t stand in the engine bay to change plugs anymore. Lol I don’t have any use for an electric or even a hybrid vehicle. I hardly drive anywhere anymore and when I do, I try to combine several stops into single trips. I don’t pull the travel trailer anymore, letting the son in law handle that when needed. My little kit utility trailer pulls just fine behind the Accent, hauling anything my old pickup would, for projects around the house. The battery replacement in the electrics is a daunting prospect, but the $15-25k Duramax engine replacements aren’t exactly a walk in the park either.

 

[meanstreak]

I have a 2008 Hyundai Elantra I bought in 2010 with 40K miles on it. It has a scoch over 170K now and does not leak or use any oil, gets 30 mpg in town, 35+ on the road at 65 mph. I have put a couple of batteries in it, 3 sets of cheap tires, and two timing belts. FWIW economy wise it has been the best car I have ever owned. Not saying my favorite, but definitely the best for the dollar.

Oh, not a spot of rust anywhere to boot, and The paint and glass all look great as well.

 

[MikeD]

I think it's shameful that the politicians would require such bullshit in the first place. Government isn't the solution to the problem folks. Government IS the problem.

Sound like someone didn't drink their Kool Aid. LOL

 

[Rodburner]

I have a 2008 Hyundai Elantra I bought in 2010 with 40K miles on it. It has a scoch over 170K now and does not leak or use any oil, gets 30 mpg in town, 35+ on the road at 65 mph. I have put a couple of batteries in it, 3 sets of cheap tires, and two timing belts. FWIW economy wise it has been the best car I have ever owned. Not saying my favorite, but definitely the best for the dollar.

Oh, not a spot of rust anywhere to boot, and The paint and glass all look great as well.

I’ve been very happy with ours too.

 

[John A.]

Sound like someone didn't drink their Kool Aid. LOL

I remember someone else who used to serve kool-aid.

It didn't turn out any better for them either.

 

[MikeD]

I had a Geo Prism years ago. My dad gave it to me with 250k miles on it. I drove it for another 50k miles. That car got 40+ mpg even up to the point I got rid of it.

We can make extreamly fuel efficient cars but we don't. Cars today, given technology should be getting more but they don't.

 

[cmcdonald]

I have a 2008 Hyundai Elantra I bought in 2010 with 40K miles on it. It has a scoch over 170K now and does not leak or use any oil, gets 30 mpg in town, 35+ on the road at 65 mph. I have put a couple of batteries in it, 3 sets of cheap tires, and two timing belts. FWIW economy wise it has been the best car I have ever owned. Not saying my favorite, but definitely the best for the dollar.

Oh, not a spot of rust anywhere to boot, and The paint and glass all look great as well.

We've had a few Hyundai's over the years...my first was an 1989 Sonata 5 speed...it was ugly but it was reliable and good on gas. It was perfect for our young family in 1993. We bought a '95 Sonata in '99, was even better. Nice little car that came with a surprise...Hyundai had been back to the drawing board for their engines for awhile. Ours came equipped with a 3.0L V6 engine from Mitsubishi. At 143hp, that sucker was a little rocket! LOL!
A few years went by and we're back to Hyundai again, my wife has a '19 Kona turbo and it is just plain fun to drive. I love my truck but I get a kick out of bombing around in her little car from time to time.

 

[John A.]

@MikeD Part of why they don't get more mileage, again is because of government.

When the government REQUIRED corn fuel ethanol alcohol to subsidize farmers, it made fuel LESS efficient. So, again, will lower mpg.

Does Ethanol Really Reduce Your Gas Mileage?

Another experiment was performed with my 2008 Subaru Forester to look at the effect of ethanol on gas mileage and to determine if it is better financially to use E10 or pure gasoline. The "20 Cents Rule" is also introduced for deciding which fuel to purchase.

axleaddict.com

Ethanol has about 25% less energy content than gasoline, so adding this substance dilutes the ability of the fuel to fire the pistons and gives your engine less bang for the buck.

And if you don't like the numbers at the link above, here's one from the government directly. The gov numbers are even worse than the one above.

Ethanol

Ethanol is a renewable, domestically produced alcohol fuel that can help reduce oil dependence and greenhouse gas emissions.

fueleconomy.gov

Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline.

 

[Rodburner]

@MikeD Part of why they don't get more mileage, again is because of government.

When the government REQUIRED corn fuel ethanol alcohol to subsidize farmers, it made fuel LESS efficient. So, again, will lower mpg.

Does Ethanol Really Reduce Your Gas Mileage?

Another experiment was performed with my 2008 Subaru Forester to look at the effect of ethanol on gas mileage and to determine if it is better financially to use E10 or pure gasoline. The "20 Cents Rule" is also introduced for deciding which fuel to purchase.

axleaddict.com

And if you don't like the numbers at the link above, here's one from the government directly. The gov numbers are even worse than the one above.

Ethanol

Ethanol is a renewable, domestically produced alcohol fuel that can help reduce oil dependence and greenhouse gas emissions.

fueleconomy.gov

Probably helps explain all the turbos, superchargers and 10 speed transmissions finding their way into everything.

 

[MikeD]

Low emissions over economy and the added weight of all the safety addons hurt mileage. I'm all for lower emissions but there has to be a balance.

Also not a fan of the CAFE std.

 

[cmcdonald]

Probably helps explain all the turbos, superchargers and 10 speed transmissions finding their way into everything.

Turbo'd engines have been extremely common in European models for decades. (That includes Ford and many others) They've been generating gobs of HP over there with small displacement engines for a long, long time. Though I suspect you're correct, it's taken increased environmental pressure on the oil companies and car makers to get more of us to give up our V8's (who doesn't love the low growl of a V8??). If Ford hadn't come up with the snotty 3.5L V6 twin turbo, I'd still be driving a 5.0L V8 without a doubt. I had high hopes for the long awaited diesel for the F150's...what a disappointment that was.

I don't understand why car/truck makers aren't doing more with turbo'd inline diesel engines. Heavy trucks have been using inline 6's for a very long time now...they are just solid and make tons of power and torque. Once inline 6's were mostly perfected in the big trucks, that spelled the demise of the big V8's for over the road purposes like the ol' Cat 3408 (that's def a yeehaw engine to drive) and the high reving 2 stroke Detroit's like the 8V92. I'm old enough to have had the privilege to drive those monsters on the road and put 'em to work, but young enough to appreciate the new and improved technology as well. I love Cat engines...fell in love the very second I climbed up in the cab of my first long nose Pete and cranked her over. A puff of black smoke and a deep, feel it in your chest tone and a cadence that sounded like a locomotive. That's like crack for a boy of 23 years old. LOL!!

I doubt Elon's battery powered rig will induce the same thrill...not hatin', jus' sayin'..............

 

[Bobster]

I remember someone else who used to serve kool-aid.

It didn't turn out any better for them either.

Funny you should mention kool-aid. About a month ago I used my extensive Pshop skills to whip this up to troll someone on Twitter...

 

[Ernst]

 

[CaddmannQ]

View attachment 28484

Here we have to disagree for a couple of reasons.

If I want to own an electric car or build an electric car nobody can stop me. How I charge it is my business.

All railroad trains are electric drive and they run on diesel generators. If you think it’s “pretend” go park your car on the railroad tracks.

I have no big problem with people distilling their own alcohol and running their own vehicles on it. That goes for drinkin’ liquor too. The government has unfairly chased the small man out of the alcohol/liquor business.

Meanwhile the bureaucrats mandate that we burn gasohol. Buncha crooks.

 

[John A.]

I see that caddman hasn't drank the kook-aid.

Bless his heart, he took the red pill and decided that he liked it. Reminds me of the apple that Eve was munching on.

Ernst isn't wrong though. Most people getting the EV's have no idea how or where electricity comes from.

 

[CaddmannQ]

My view of electric cars is this.

Everybody should use them in congested areas because that puts the pollution of operation on the generators.

Outside of the city they don’t make much sense. To get the range you need you start adding battery after battery until the vehicle is so heavy it can’t pull it self efficiently.

A government has no business trying to mandate electric cars or push the electric car business. They think that it can’t happen without government intervention, because the investments won’t be made by private people. Well they won’t as long as the government is allowing ridiculous investments in things like FTX.

 

[Bobster]

The "problem" with the gubmint is they are mandating "safety" and now also "green-ness". Darwin frowns upon the safety mandates because they are allowing unskilled (unintelligent?) people to drive (and survive) when they don't have any business behind the wheel. I include ANY of the self-driving "aids" in this category. And with the farking big-ass screens they are putting in, how can ANYONE drive one of these things without taking your eyes off the road and/or being distracted? All these crash requirements require US models to be far more complicated (and heavier) than cars for other markets...

Regarding the greening of cars, in a small way, it is a GOOD thing with increased mileage and power. BUT it is a BAD thing because it is mandated AND the "pushing" of EVs on the less-enlightened under the guise of "better for the environment" is a lie and bunch of BS kool-aid the lemmings are conned into drinking...

 

[CaddmannQ]

The first thing they teach you in salesmanship school is that, “Nothing happens until somebody sells something.”

Everything is a sales job nowadays and sales resistance is one of the greatest survival skills person can develop.

 

[John A.]

Looks like those who chose to go green in norway are now regretting their decision.

Electric Vehicle Charging in Oslo, Norway is Now More than Twice as Expensive as Filling Gas-Powered Vehicle​

Electric Vehicle Charging in Oslo, Norway is Now More than Twice as Expensive as Filling Gas-Powered Vehicle | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

It is now more than twice as expensive to charge an electric vehicle in Norway’s capital, Oslo, than to fill up a gas-powered vehicle.

www.thegatewaypundit.com