Anyone got any good #00 and Slug load data?

[John A.]

Curious if anyone has any good 12 ga load data for double ought buck and slug?

I think I've got a decent (and mild) slug load shooting very accurately with a Lee 1 oz slug clocked in at 1100 fps, but the figure 8 wads were spreading out a lot farther than I liked with the buckshot with both 8 pellets (1 oz) and 9 pellets (1-1/8 oz).

In all fairness the 9 pellets were printing with better coverage overall, but still spreading wider than I liked.

Would make for a good brush deer/bear load at 20-25 yards with an 18 inch cylinder bore though. Would easily take out an entire lung.

Thinking about trying a hornady versatite wad and swapping the powder for longshot and with a lot higher charge to see how that patterns, but it would probably be anything but mild.

Had looked for flite control wads in the past, but no luck finding any components.

 

[John A.]

Some targets from today.

Each target was shot 5 times each. 00 Buck (.330") pellets.

And these were low recoil/tactical loads. Much like the Remington Managed Recoil or Hornady LEO Reduced recoil loads. Very mild shooting and fast followups.

The first with 8 pellets (1 ounce) in each shell


The next was 5 shots again but with 9 pellets in each shell (stacked differently in the wad)

The slug was just outside the little bull ring at the 2 o'clock position.



Going to try a different wad and powder tomorrow if it's not raining to see how it does. It's going to be more of a high brass load, and to be honest, I'm not really looking forward to shooting many of them. I'll probably just load 2 or 3 of them to see how they do.

 

[nitesite]

I went with oli700's Lee slug recipe. I cannot remember the data as I an not home, but I remember it was Blue Dot. You could pm him or I'll try hard to look during the weekend for you.

 

[John A.]

Thanks nitesite.

I'm pretty happy with the slug load, but I would like to improve the buck loads. Something with a tighter patterning wad/recipe would be ideal.

 

[nitesite]

Have you thought of experimenting reusing a couple of FliteControl wads, since they expand at the rear and don't deform the petals too much? I never considered it much until now, so it's just a thought.

If anybody can engineer how to compress those rear vanes to start them in the hull I bet it would be you!

 

[John A.]

Made a few more reduced recoil slug loads. They're accurate, and very mild recoiling. I'm going to keep that recipe. Matter of fact, I'm going to load some of them up for keeps to put in the side saddle.

The versatite wad load with 00 buck was tighter pattern than the Remington Fig. 8 wads. Shooting a hair left of the point of aim, but still getting decent coverage in the center ring. They're not as mild though. Not in the neighborhood of full house magnum loads, but they still have some oomph on the tail end of them.

Quick question for anyone, that load data calls for 16.8 gr of longshot. Velocity was supposed to be around 1450 (I didn't shoot them over the chrono to verify).

Would dropping the powder charge cause any problems? Other than the obvious possible squib. I don't mean starving the load, but there was a lot of flame, and recoil. I'm wondering if trying to drop it down to 16 grains would cause any weird pressure problem?

Goal would be to lower velocity some, recoil, and less flash out of the muzzle of the 20 inch barrel. Seems a lot of power is wasted with the charge as high as it was.

And would be ideal if I could get the velocity down to about 1250-1300 'ish would be pretty nice.

Or, I might just get a pound of clays next week and go from there. Would probably be a lot safer sticking with published data than trying to work-around with the powder(s) that I do have.

 

[John A.]

Ok, I was able to try out something new today.

I didn't shoot them over a chrony, so I have no idea what velocity they're moving at, but the recoil was superb. Hardly no kick at all, and could pump and get back on target quickly with a follow-up shot easily.

So, these are the loads that I'm going to concentrate on making for defensive purposes.

I'll add the recipe below, but I don't mean to imply that these are safe or good for use in any other gun, but I'm content with how they're performing in my Rem. 870 with 20 inch barrel and cyl. choke.

Here are 2 shots at 20 yards into the side of a cardboard coke case.




Here's the recipe if you want to try some low recoil buckshot:

15.5 gr Clays powder
Remington Hull
Federal 209A primer
Federal 12S3 wad (with the petals cut off so I could fit 9 pellets in the allotted space-3 pellets per layer)
Nine #00 Buck Hornady Pellets
Crimp
*No fillers or overshot card necessary

 

[RichardL]

John, try substitution loading some 1 1/4oz field loads like before. A 1 1/4oz field load at 1330fps will make a nine pellet 00 buck load at approx 1450fps. It's full power buck in an average pressure loading and it'll kick just a bit more. It's one of my fav loads these days. You're dropping the payload by 1/8oz so you're dropping the pressure while upping the velocity by about 120-130fps. As always, DO NOT touch the powder and DO NOT up the lead weight! If you're getting over spreading, it's due to pellet deformation in pretty much every case. In the 1 1/4oz hulls, you can buffer the load with some Cream of Wheat added to the pellets. If you're loading EIGHT pellet loads, you're going to get some really messy deformation. Try loading them in layers of three like a nine pellet load with a single 8mm or so plastic bead to fill the last layer. Mardi Gras beads are incredibly cheap.

One last thing....

I made these up in the last ten mins to demonstrate. Very simple tools and very simple to make but they take about five mins per hull. I found out long ago that my projects catch on in an inverse proportion to how long and how hard they are to make....so if you do them, you'll be about the second person behind me who ever has.

This is a common $1.50 solar yard light. Ebay. The tube is the perfect size for stacking 00 pellets. Common 18650 battery shrink wraps, again from Ebay. Shop around, they go diff prices. Common Fed 1 1/8oz target shells and some 00 buck pellets. These are Hornady so they're swaged and shiny....no diff than common molded ones.

To do these, slip a battery wrap onto the light tube so there's about 1/8-1/4" left over as in the pic. Dip it about an inch into some boiling water so it shrinks to the light tube and closes the end a bit. Pull it off and load your pellets in three layers of three. Slip the wrap BACK onto the tube to hold the pellets packed tight and dip it again to just above the pellets this time. Carefully cut the wrap just above the pellets and drop the entire thing into the hot water to finish it. Do the second half of the wrap the same way. Close the end a bit, pack it, shrink it, dunk it to finish it. It's much faster than I just typed it. Two loads per battery wrap.

The Fed Top Gun shells are two piece wads....gas seal and cup. Open the crimp and needlenose pliers jerk the cup out. Trim the petals off flush and reinsert the now flat cup. The shrink-wrap load drops right in. Lee LoadAll for a near factory crimp.

 

[John A.]

That's pretty neat Richard.

The $100 question, how do they perform with the shrink wrap?

Sluggish?

That was a joke and a play on words, but not exactly

I know that Oli700 often pours his own buckshot and doesn't snip them all apart out of the mold while leaving the sprue.

I use the federal hulls a lot for making my slugs so I understand about it being a gas seal and a separate shot cup.

The recipe that I used above was really close to a published load by hogdon.

I only reduced the powder charge by ~.3 of a grain, and that was only due to getting a better crimp because at the 15.8 gr, they were trying to open back up some after they sat loaded overnight.

Naturally, the hogdon data didn't discuss trimming the petals or buckshot, but the 9 pellets and reduction of the weight of the petals, should put me right back to about what the published load data is because the load isn't hardly the 1-1/8 oz the recipe called for either and barely more than 1 ounce, so even by reducing the powder some, I'm still below the pay load weight and should still increase the velocity some without spiking the pressure. That's why I felt comfortable enough sharing this recipe on here.

I wanted to load them a little light for a few reasons.

#1 being reduced recoil and fast followup shot if needed. This reduces flinching, reduces some of the sound and flash (especially if used in confined area) and a few other reasons.

#2 being reduced over-penetration on target so it would dump more of it's energy in the target rather than through it, and obviously reduce the chance of a pellet leaving my house and entering someone elses'.

Even if the pellets are traveling at an estimated 1125 fps, those nine, 53 gr; 33 caliber pellets are chugging right along with a combined weight of 477 gr, isn't something anyone would want to deal with even at the reduced power.

Truth is, I don't know of anyone that truly needs high brass magnum power buckshot while essentially shooting at point blank range for HD.

Hunting at 70 yards away, yeah, I can see wanting the extra oomph. But not for 12 feet away with someone trying to hide behind a coat rack.

 

[Elbert Garrett]

Truth is, I don't know of anyone that truly needs high brass magnum power buckshot while essentially shooting at point blank range for HD.

Hunting at 70 yards away, yeah, I can see wanting the extra oomph. But not for 12 feet away with someone trying to hide behind a coat rack.

Agreed! I want it to hit like a brick and give me a little spread instead of cutting a slug sized hole.....I`m leaning towards #4 Buck but testing different loads provides a lot of fun!

 

[John A.]

I agree. Testing is a lot of fun.

But that is one thing that the majority of folks don't do enough of. I am glad to admit that I don't think you're in that category Elbert. I've noticed that you've done a lot of testing and gracious enough to share what you've found with the rest of us.

Anytime that you (meaning anyone) get a gun, it's good to learn what it likes, what it doesn't. That should be the first thing anyone does after they get it.

"What distance you can make a single hole.

What is the maximum range you can shoot that gun and still get a decent coverage on target?

Does it shoot a little to the left, right, low? Should I aim an inch higher than where I need to hit?

Does it pattern better with 00 Buck or 000 Buck?"

These are questions you better not be asking yourself when you're standing eye to eye with a car load of meth heads scattered all through your house that are looking for a fight.

 

[RichardL]

I had posted two more in this thread and neither is here now. Not even going to ask. Been having weird probs with this forum on this particular computer.

John, I thought you had said you wanted a stiffer load for your slugs and buck. Sorry, bud. Misunderstood. I load light, too. Haven't used loose powder in probably close to two decades now. I have a bit of arthritis in the joints so heavy loads don't tend to be welcome here

Those shrunken loads fly in a lump if it's a cylinder bore but they break up if you use a choke. They tumble as all smoothbore loads do so they can lose a pellet or three on the way, but they tend to hit in a very tight clump and then sort of explode in all directions. Does a watermelon really dirty, so to speak. Range mass rule; the more lead on the target, the better it is. They blow apart on impact.

Great chatting with you guys, btw! I love these reloading threads!

God bless!

 

[nitesite]

Buckshot loading can be so complicated, can't it?

 

[John A.]

Nitesite, I enjoy doing it. I enjoy testing it. I enjoying trying different combinations to see what works best.

The recipe above is a keeper. For me at least.

I read something a while back while reading about converting loads back over to black powder (drams) that kind of goes along with what we're talking about.

Said something along the lines of

"Less powder, more lead - shoot far, kills dead.

More powder, less lead - big spread"

Richard, Sorry you've been having trouble on that computer. And I'm sorry that I didn't get to read what you had written. But I do agree with what you said about more lead on target is better. Even with "reduced power" loads, or even magnum loads, if you're not getting lead on target, isn't nothing but a bunch of sound and flash. Thunder is the noise, but lightning does the work