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Birds of a feather..

The Serbu SS was my inspiration. The ergonomics are nearly the same as the M3 grease gun I used back in the 70s.
 
Aluminum version..might needs some grip holes…lol
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Very interesting...... :)

Yes. it is.

And this is twice where he has broken federal firearms laws with 2 separate felonies with that gun.

The first by making it into a short barrel shotgun by making the little stock for your shoulder on the back of it a while back and now making it into an AOW by using the front grip. While not illegal to make either of those, doing it without paying the $200 tax (for either account) and getting government blessing first is a quick way to get 10 years and $250,000 fine for each instance.

rodburner, you may seriously want to reconsider gun ownership. It may not be for you. Ignorance of gun laws has never been a very good defense in federal court.

I realize democrats have made a lot of bad laws that everyone has to follow, but that's the world we live in. They suck out the fun in everything. I used to think that they did it out of ignorance, but the older I get, I believe they do it as attrition and just to harass citizens and weaken our country.

Here's a "for instance" as an example. Notice in the title where it says "nfa paperwork required". That means a $200 tax and government registration.

https://www.impactguns.com/aow/serb...erg-aow-nfa-paperwork-required-ser-ss12-ss12/

You may think that I intentionally target your posts, but I don't. But at the same time, when I see something I know is illegal and wrong, it's my responsibility to the forum to point it out.
 
I am pretty certain that you put a homemade wire stock (or a part that could be used as such) on the back of that gun. I keep my PM's and I recall messaging you in private about it when you first posted pictures of it and mentioned you may want to take the pictures down. I'm sure I could look back through them and find it. And if I'm mistaken, I'm man enough to admit and apologize. It's been a while. I may have made a mistake. But even putting a shorter grip on it, is still into AOW and felony territory because of OAL restrictions. But I'm pretty sure it was a post from you that made a homemade wire stock and had it on the end of it.

I maybe should have left politics out of it, but at the end of the day, I didn't because I want you and everyone else who may someday read this know that democrats historically tend to make the most antigun laws. And Biden was instrumental at enacting more during the '94 assault weapons ban. Helping put a piece of shit like that in office has consequences for all of us who want to have and keep our guns. No democrat ever said "If you like your gun, you can keep your gun". Remember that. Yes, I know that may be a lousy pelosi reference, but it seems to fit this conversation really well.

They don't care if you get tripped up and do something wrong and get into trouble over it. They've done their job and high five themselves over it and go to sleep in their nice warm beds at night knowing they made it harder on someone trying to do nothing more than exercise their right to have a gun and padded their bank accounts from the antigun activists at the same time.

I'm not faulting you for voting for him. At the end of the day, I don't care. God bless America. Truly and honestly. Trump wasn't exactly progun either and was also largely ignorant of the laws in place. I'm still pretty pissed about the whole pistol brace thing he said after the nra came out saying they didn't think we should have them. Yeah, I still have that little memo saved on my computer too. I'll be the first to say nra are mostly pieces of shit too. I'm not bashful to call a spade a spade.

But, just know who is behind the fact that there are a lot of gun laws, and you've already broken two very big ones. Multiple felonies even. And posted pictures online of it. I really wasn't just blowing smoke that NFA violations are 10 years and 250,000 fines EACH. You're welcome to look them up.

Those are very real laws.

You can put a vertical grip on a shotgun that is not under 26 inches in length overall or one that has a barrel under 18 inches. But for those guns that are smaller, NFA (national firearm act) laws apply. It's called ANY OTHER WEAPON (AOW).

That's not my fault. I think the laws are unfair and unconstitutional. But my opinion doesn't change case law either.

At the end of the day, the reason you can't put a buttstock on that gun, and the reason you can't put a vertical grip on the front of it, or use a shorter rear grip is because of democrat enacted laws.

So, while I realize that neither you or I are responsible for anything that was signed into law almost 100 years ago, at the same time, I can honestly say at least I see who the enemy to freedom is and am putting the blame where it belongs. At the agenda of democrat policies, activists, and donors.
 
After some digging, I was able to find that post above. http://mossbergowners.com/forum/ind...shockwave-in-tactical-gear.18687/#post-262817


I'm trying to make sure the right info is there and in context. And if you notice the examples that I used, the Thompson and the XO26 both have RIFLED barrels. The shockwave has a smoothbore and that's where I got into trouble with my reply. And for that, I'll say I was wrong.

Granted there is no reason for me to defend putting out info that's not good. I pride myself in sticking straight with whatever the book has.

I do remember the franklin armory xo-26 that was referenced in your reply. And I also see the post date of Nov 17, 2018 from djcala.

At the time that was posted, ATF didn't care about it because franklinarmory was marketing the xo-26 and reformation models as a firearm designed to be fired using two hands (and as firearms). The ATF has since changed their stance (flip-flopped) again about a year after I had posted that reply.

BREAKING: ATF Declares the Franklin Armory Reformation a GCA/SBS Shotgun, Halts All Retail Sales
December 19, 2019
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/b...eformation-a-gca-sbs-shotgun-halts-all-sales/

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So, for at least the time that I had written the post you referenced above, the info was not correct that the end user could add a grip, but if starting from a raw receiver built and sold from the ground up, was occuring, was legal for a time. At that time of the post.

This is where ATF screws a lot of people with their damn retroactive determinations. At the end of the day, ATF should make no determinations at all since they are not congress and should not be making any kind of laws or regulations, but until that changes, it's the world we live in.

I was looking while searching for the above post, and appears that I had also replied to another question you had asked a month later that was really specific that your shockwave fit a very narrow description and that changes would likely put you into legal peril.
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http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/tax-stamp-questions.20168/#post-282778

rodburner.JPG



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And a bunch of other replies concerning AOW

http://mossbergowners.com/forum/ind...discussion-about-legallity.17719/#post-249039

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Thank you for trying to set me straight. It is bs that I can buy a gun and it’s perfectly fine to change A,B and C to customize it a little, but then a year or two later they can change the parameters to make it out of compliance long after I’ve stopped looking into the changes I’ve made.. it’s not a big deal for this mod to be corrected. That front grip takes 10 seconds to unscrew, putting the shockwave back to factory issue.
 
As a side light to this discussion I thought you guys might be interested in the old U.S. Marshal's Witness Protection Shotgun project from the 1980's. These were purpose built guns converted originally from stock Remington 870s and later built for other customers on new factory receivers. You'll see a lot of similarity to the Shockwave and TAC-14 of today.

These were fun guns to shoot using the same aimed, push-pull system we use today. The linked article gives a good history of the project and some insights as to how the guns were made and how the marshals used the guns.

Does anyone own either the SBS or AOW versions?

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/wilson-witness-protection-870/

Regards
 
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As a side light to this discussion I thought you guys might be interested in the old U.S. Marshal's Witness Protection Shotgun project from the 1980's. These were purpose built guns converted originally from stock Remington 870s and later built for other customers on new factory receivers. You'll see a lot of similarity to the Shockwave and TAC-14 of today.

These were fun guns to shoot using the same aimed, push-pull system we use today. The linked article gives a good history of the project and some insights as to how the guns were made and how the marshals used the guns.

Does anyone own either the SBS or AOW versions?

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/wilson-witness-protection-870/

Regards
Mossberg makes/made a compact cruiser 12g based seemingly of the Serbu super shorty. They are still available in Alaska for LEO’s etc. The Mossberg Chainsaw is the same size as a Shockwave, but with a longer barrel and shorter grip..crazy how a modification here or there to make something easier or safer to use for the individual can cause so much consternation…
 
Rodburner, as you said, there are a few other unique configurations and some are basically exempt from general public use but all of these weapons fall under the three current classifications of a Short Barreled Shotgun, Any Other Weapon or the most recent "Firearm" classification of the Shockwave and TAC-14.

There is a lot of confusion but understanding the original configuration whether it be a donor gun that was modified or a new built using a virgin receiver is key. Some classifications allow reversion to their original configuration while others do not. And like you and John have discussed even certain modifications are allowed while others are not. Braces are still an ongoing discussion which comes up every 6 months or so.

Crazy rules but the owner of any SBS, AOW or Firearm must understand these classification rules. I really think folks should carry a copy of the classification that applies to their firearm because many, in law enforcement, unfortunately do not understand the three classifications either. I had a deputy sheriff use the term SBS for a Shochwave. The other issue is transport of these weapons across state lines. Different rules based on classification. Owner beware!

However, IMO having these three classifications is great for all of us in that it allows ownership options. My grip is a $200 stamp!

Regards
 
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