Buckshot/Slugs in a VR 500E?

[Gunner]

With the popularity of the .45 Colt/.410 Taurus Judge, has come a greater selection of .410 loadings. I assume that some of these loads are finding their way into .410 shotguns.

How safe it would be to shoot these loads in a full choke .410 shotgun? Such as the 500E with the FC 24" VR barrel?

The .410 HD Mossbergs come with Imp. Cyl. or a Cyl bores, and one would assume such loads could safetly be fired. Yet these barrels are not readily available as an after market item. I know...I've looked...

Do you think this increases the likelyhood that specialty loadings designed for use in the Judge will find their way into full choked Mossbeg 500E's? and if so what would be the consequences?

 

[Itsricmo]

Are you thinking about the XPD1 loads from Winchester? I don't know what material those slugs/discs are made out of and whether or not it will deform. I am going to check Winchesters website and see what I can dig up. Maybe even send an Email for ya

More specifics on the loads you are actually talking about would help out too.


EDIT: I cannot find any contact info for Winchester on the PDX1*. Simply from viewing their website and the VERY LITTLE information provided, the .410 shell is for "short range encounters". Just as well I must say that I would not want to shoot this load out of my FULL choke until someone else chimes in

I know that a Brenneke style slug, or "rifled", is generally safe to shoot through a FULL choke unless otherwise stated on the box. It is always good to read the Manufacturers warnings. They are there for a reason

 

[Rossignol]

I saw this once before and didn't get to it...

The PDX1 is best suited at short ranges as it really doesn't pattern well when pushed. I'm talkin less than 10 yards. The small shot included in the load shouldn't be counted on at all to do anything but the larger projectiles grouped decently at short range. I think the smaller shot is also a liability as it spreads out way too much and may miss the target altogether at any significant range. Additionally, they're too small and lack density to be counted on to stop a threat.

I have the same model 500E you mention with a 24" VR barrel. My daughter regularly fires 00 and 000 buck through it and it patterns well, even at some range, 15 to 20 yards. The loads we've used are mostly the handgun loads from Federal.

I have a doctor friend who has much more experience thn I do with a .410 and I recently asked him about slugs through the full choke barrel. He said all the .410s he ever had were full choked guns and they commonly fired slugs through them. He mentioned the Brenekes being a good option as well as rifled slugs but cautioned that the slugs may not be enough to take out a deer at longer ranges. The small slugs will loose too much energy and not have enough force to punch deeply into vital organs. His experience and not my own. He said he got a single lung hit and landed a couple others on a deer but then had to track it and eventually finish it with a knife.

The last thing he said about the slug is that it may open thee choke slightly but that it won't otherwise damage the barrel.

 

[Itsricmo]

Thanks Rossignol! On Winchester's site, they say that the pellets are to "compensate for aim"... I wouldn't relay on them being laser accurate if you aren't at least moderately accurate to begin with... sounds fishy to me!

 

[Rossignol]

No problem man.

In my limited experience withthe load from both a handgun and a shotgun, those little pellets spread way out and in some cases completely missed paper. Bein used to "compensate for aim" is a flawed plan to begin with. Like I said, the pellets are small and not dense enough to be reliable. Even a #2 or a bb load is unreliable and the PDX1 uses only a few of them in the .410 load.

Here's another consideration, whether in a Taurus Judge, a S&W Govenor, or a 16" Rossi Circuit Judge, each of these is rifled because they're also designed to stabilize a .45 LC. The rifling succedes in spinning that small shot out and away from the target.

On another point. Why would a load be designed to compensate for aim? It lends to the myth of the shotgun bein a scatter gun, an instrument that doesn't need to be aimed. Do they not understand that we are responsible for every projectile? Why would you not want a load that has to be aimed? I would never advocate to merely point in the general direction. That's just poor training.

In conclusion.
I train and practice aiming my firearms. I choose loads that put every projectile in a predictable space. I also choose loads that contain individual projectiles that are on their own, dense enough with enough mass and energy to reliably stop a threat if ever it is required.

I don't mean to rant, nor do I intend to put down a manufacturer as if I'm some brand snob. I don't do it to anyone down who may like the particularr load. However, I won't mislead anyone. I will share my results and experiences and make recommendation based on those. You also get my opinions and commentary!

 

[Itsricmo]

On another point. Why would a load be designed to compensate for aim? It lends to the myth of the shotgun being a scatter gun, an instrument that doesn't need to be aimed. Do they not understand that we are responsible for every projectile? Why would you not want a load that has to be aimed? I would never advocate to merely point in the general direction. That's just poor training.

EXCELLENT POINT!!! The manufacturer most likely cares not about how we shoot but just selling the ammunition. I don't much like Winchester loads anyhow, but this is a HUGE gimmich that will, if it hasn't already, get individuals in some trouble.

Wonder if that will hold up in court: "The manufacturer said that it compensates for my aim.."