Challenging the Laws

[Scoop]

@John A.

In the thread “Red Flag Laws” you wrote, “That's my humble opinion about it. I think it's high time we stop relying on gun right organizations to sue on our behalf. It's time we all start doing it ourselves. it's the only way to be sure is to nuke 'em from orbit. Bog it down so bad that there would be no way for them to move under the weight of the lawsuits. I have decided that if they ban any particular kind of gun either on the state or federal level, that I intend to do just that. No, I am not kidding, yes I am 100% serious.”
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I was excited to see a post with such passion about action against stupid gun laws.

I am willing to go to court to put the brakes on some of these unconstitutional restrictions. I like your suggestion on filing multi-suits for abusive laws.

Would you take your post in “Red Flag” and start a new thread about assault on bad legislation? I’d hop on that. There is a lot to learn to be effective, but I’d love to see if there is any enthusiasm for this on the board

There are lot of pieces that need to be considered. I list a few below.

Track laws – Report laws
Proper level of filing – US/ State/…/Local/Personal
Remedies
Timing – On intro/on passage/on enforcement/on conviction?
Costs
Co-ordination of suits
Support
Real lawyers w/legal advice and warning of pitfalls

 

[John A.]

Good morning scoop.

Like many other men here, I'm tired of hearing how the government is going to violate my rights. Any of them. All of them. And quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it and tired of having it loom over my head like a black cloud.

Many folks here have marched on their state capitals, written letters and made calls to their senators office. Voted accordingly.

I too would like more information about the questions that you have written. I know one lawyer who may join and be able to help answer some of your questions. I'll contact him later today and give him the thread info.

I was taught in school that the people (us) have a voice. But if you remain silent, nothing ever changes. So, it's past due that we be a thorn in their side because things are starting to get out of hand.

 

[Scoop]

I was taught in school that the people (us) have a voice. But if you remain silent, nothing ever changes. So, it's past due that we be a thorn in their side because things are starting to get out of hand.

Well said. There must be effort, follow-up, persistence and sacrifice applied to maintain our freedom and rights during the promised onslaught from our newly structured Congress and our ever-meddling state and local gummints.

I will put my life on the line for these causes. It beats passing away in the old folks home.

My major commitment began after I moved to WI in 2006 after retirement. Sure, I had made my many submissions to newspapers countering anti-gun rantings start back in the old "assault weapon" ban years. Pretty much farting in the wind. But I had an opportunity to get into the fight up there.

History: In 2003 an old Wisconsin 1890s law against “going armed” was found to be unconstitutional under the state constitution. [State v. Hamdan] In that decision the WI Supreme Court told the legislature that law was flawed and the Court could not fix it; that was the Assembly’s [state house] job to write the legislation. Get it done.

Well the Assembly dragged their feet for years doing nothing, so people were still getting arrested and prosecuted in WI for carrying handguns.

I met with a lawyer [I always like to have criminal and civil law advice available] and told him that I thought I had a way of winning a lawsuit if I ever got arrested "going armed." I told him my approach to the “Hamdan Test” [see below] and he told me “I like that. I’d defend you for nothing just to use that.” So, after that I carried in WI every day, just like I did in GA since 1998. I was willing to throw myself into court to get the legislature off their ass.

Anti-climax: I couldn't even get arrested! Nothing happened to me. But in 2012 WI did finally pass a CCW law that was pretty good.

Anyhoo, the point behind that too-long story is that I am willing to go to court to put the brakes on some of these unconstitutional restrictions. John, I like your suggestion on filing multi-suits for abusive laws.
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Note:
Hamdan test is what the WI Supreme Court laid out as 2 questions you could use as a constitutional challenge to a "going armed" prosecution.

Below is Paragraph 131 of the WI SC decision of State V. Hamdan. The two questions highlighted were often referred to as the Hamdan Test.

131. The majority opinion concludes that a defendant who challenges a prosecution for carrying a concealed weapon on constitutional grounds will be required to secure affirmative answers to two “legal questions” for the circuit court before he is entitled to raise a constitutional defense and one question of fact for the fact finder at trial before he may prevail.29  The two legal questions for the circuit court are:  (1) did the defendant's interest in concealing the weapon substantially outweigh the State's interest in enforcing the concealed weapons statute;  and (2) was concealment the only reasonable means under the circumstances to carry the gun.  Then, according to the majority opinion, if the defendant receives affirmative answers to these two questions the trier of fact must determine by means of a separate verdict question whether the defendant had a lawful purpose for carrying the weapon.

The complete opinion is at https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wi-supreme-court/1357282.html

Don't waste your time reading it as it is now moot w/ the passage of CCW in WI.