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Confederate battle flag issue

Water Monkey said:
Born in Texas…. Cant believe these southern states are caving like a bunch of cheap suits.

This has nothing to do with the flag being racist. It was based on the Southern States being muscled by the northern alliance in congress and the senate and the expansion of the federal government's power.

Slavery was also under the American Flag. And for a time under the American Flag Women couldn't vote. I guess Liberals want an all white flag… oh wait that's racist.

AND per Lincoln's words to Horace Greeley:

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do notbelieve it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.
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It was never about slavery in the first place, although the public was made to believe it was.

The U.S. treasury was empty and the government was flat broke after decades of defaulting, then finally paying off French, Dutch, and Spanish debts incurred during the American Revolution. The Southern States controlled all the commerce in cotton, tobacco, and most other cash crops, agriculture, etc. Southern land owners and those responsible for shipping said goods domestic and to countries overseas were absolutely dripping with money. All the government had to do to appropriate the funds was find a reason to "invade" and slavery was their way in...
 
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This issue isn't about some state flag or an old symbol of the Confederacy. It's about everything BUT that. It's about Politics with a capital P. It's about the history and the future of the USA. It's about a culture and a civilization. It's about tyranny or freedom. It's about choice or dictates. It's about Life or Death.
 
Thing that burns me is these liberal,PC a$$holes will try and take away a piece of American history(civil war) and let a bunch of skin heads fly the nazi flag,,,,,duh,,,,,somethings wrong here folks.
 
LAZY EYED SNIPER said:
It was never about slavery in the first place, although the public was made to believe it was.
Click to expand...

My public school taught it as strictly about slavery. I didn't hear about states rights until I met my best friend at college. I came to find that they taught me many things that were not true and my parents didn't know any better. My kids don't have that problem.
 
I take offense to the removal of the flag and retailers pulling products for multiple reasons. First, even though I was born and raised in Venice beach Ca. I am a direct blood descendent of General stonewall Jackson on my mothers side of the family. As I have read plenty about him, I respect his actions and what he put forth as his destiny.
2 nd, I have had enough of the political correct train. I am so sick of some middle,aged white crusader putting forth actions like exactly what we are experiencing with the confederate flag.

Not 2 miles from my home is a gay neighborhood, daily I have to drive down the road and see no less then 50 gay pride flags flying in road daylight. Now, I do not like it, but, It is there land, there home etc etc, I feel everyone has the right to do what they want with there own property. So I don't let it get to me. The fact that the confederate flag has flown across countless southern states from the time of the civil war till now, and for it to become an issue now, is absurd.

Lastly, I see racial tensions rising during the currant POTUS, it is getting worse daily, but in reality, it is a racism that is against the white man that am seeing, not the other way around.

It is going to let loose at some point, stock up on BOO let's and be ready for the spam to break, because it is comming.

Cheers, and long live the confederate flag.
 
Come om guys, Y'all know that prior to the war of Northern Aggression every white man had a plantation and a 100 or more slaves------NOT!!!!!!!!
The majority of Southerners were just above subsistence living. Slaves cost more than a mule,plus they had to be fed decently if they were to be cost effective.
Mules,horses and oxen could be fed grass and hay or silage, which was cheaper. When the AVERAGE man had a hard time feeding himself and his family, affording slaves was pretty far down on the list.
 
I can tell TJ is from the south.

Man knows what he's talking about.

Here is what I wrote on another forum about it.

Some folks were talking about the confederate flag being racist.
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If a confederate flag makes me racist, your gun makes you a killer. Your box of matches makes you an arsonist.
See how this works?
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afmo, I'm going to let you in on a little something.

I guess to you, the confederate flag stands for racism. That's probably what you've been told all your life, so you must think that's true. So to you, you think that's what it's about.

But to me, it stands for a flag born of proud people who stood up for their rights and fought and died to preserve that.

Northern troops rode in and burned homes, entire towns, took what they wanted from people they had no right to. And that includes the women.

Some of my ancestors fought for the confederates because the Federal Government had killed entire villages. Marched them half way across the country to a reservation. Took their home lands. Their sacred and ceremonial grounds. Killed innocent women and children.

If you're so determined to read history, here is a good place to start. http://www.angelfire.com/tn2/inada/chickamauga/massacres.html

If you ask if I am ashamed of what my ancestors did, I make no apologies as such.

On the contrary, I am proud of my heritage. And that flag is a reminder of that.

Just so you know, I am not racist in any sense of the word.
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his reply:
Yeah yeah, war is hell. I get it.
When you take up arms over, among other things, the right to own human beings, you get what you get. Sympathy from me iant one of those things.
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And my reply to that again:
You obviously did not read what I wrote.
Much of what I was speaking of was BEFORE the war.
But, like I said. I wouldn't expect you to understand. Your history was probably read to you out of a thick book.
Mine has been passed down in person.
 
Civil War...Cause and Effect:

States Rights ... in regards to the protection of slavery in the South's expansion into the Western Territories was the primary catalyst of the Civil War...arguments which began under then President Buchanan.

When Northern anti-slavery political forces rose up to block it...Declarations of Secession ( secondary catalyst ) greeted president elect Abraham Lincoln ...who had just won the 1860 election... even though he was not on the ballot in ten of the Southern states.

When seven of those ten states... whose economies were all based on cotton seceded...the Confederate States of America were formed... before Lincoln even took office.

Nationalists ( in the North and "Unionists" in the South ) refused to recognize the secessions. The U.S. government refused to relinquish it's forts that were in territory claimed by the Confederacy.

Taxes paid on foreign goods called Tariffs ( third catalyst ) was also an issue. Southerners believed that these tariffs were unfair and aimed toward them because they imported a wider variety of goods compared to the North's imports.

Taxes were also levied on many Southern exports...an expense that was not always applied to Northern goods of equal value; an awkward economic structure allowed states and private transportation companies to accomplish this. Consequently, this affected Southern banks because they found themselves paying higher interest rates on loans made with banks in the North.

The situation grew worse after several "panics", including one in 1857 that affected more Northern banks than Southern banks. Southern financiers found themselves burdened with high payments just to save Northern banks that had suffered financial losses through poor investments.

War began on April 12, 1861 when Confederate forces bombarded Fort Sumter, a major U.S. fortress in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina.
 
The gift shops at the Gettysburg Battlefield that are run by the Parks Service are pulling the flag items. They describe it as stand alone items, things that only have that flag. I guess a coffee mug that's 1/2 US federal flag and 1/2 Army of Northern Virginia is still ok. Apparently privately owned stores in the area are telling them to cram it where the sun doesn't shine.
 
Shooter, the only way that will happen is if you let it.

They can pull all the merchandise in the world, but as long as you tell the stories, long as you teach them, "THEY" will never succeed.
 
Some rebels up north. Saw a truck with a huge rebel flag flying in the back with the super imposed don't tread on me.
 
If every flag disappears from ever store, that still shouldn't stop anyone committed to preserving history.

For a few bucks in material and a some thread one could make a flag with little effort. Probably mean a lot more too, versus a gift shop job made in china...
 
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