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Good morning

Good morning. 73, cloudy, the air is calm and we have scattered rain showers in our area. We don’t have anything special to do so I guess I will just relax and take what the day gives me.

You all have a great day.
 
Ernst said:
An interesting question to ponder!
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I'm not a full-blown libertarian so I don't have a problem with Trumpy's limited military actions. (ie: blowing drug boats out of the water)

But as a libertarian, I feel the "action" against Iran was not well thought out and should have been postponed until (1) AFTER the ICE removals have slowed down (due to lack of Illegal Invaders still here. And more importantly, it should have been postponed until (2) AFTER the mid-term elections so there would be a better chance of the Rs retaining at least the House and/or Senate. And until (3) AFTER the US had more cheap drones to counter Iran's cheap drones.

Now I fear if the Dumpos get the House and/or Senate, the first thing on the docket will be to IMPEACH Trumpy. I don't think I'm being negative here but certainly realistic... :rolleyes:
 
I think the only thing completely exposed is the limits of America’s collective political will to fight the great horde.

They have no problem with the slaughter of the innocent. We have a big problem with it and it puts us at a disadvantage, especially when the innocent are their own people.

When the rich people in Iran can no longer afford to pay for protection, then I think we will see a real revolt.

Until then more people are going to get stuck between a rock and a hard place when they didn’t deserve it.

But we have 1 million people that think America deserves some kind of punishment. They’re too stupid to realize they’ve already created their own punishment and have condemned themselves to live with it.
 
Politicians, from the highest level on down don't win wars. Their job is to set goals and objectives.

The military, with support from the indistrial base and more importantly the American people, conduct and win wars.

And whether people like it or not most wars typically require a ground campaign if they are truely going to be won. Missles and drones use without totally defined objectives only prolonges the conflict and more importantly lessens the support by the indigenous popuation. Ground operations, without some level of indigenous support can not be won.

The military plans the campaign and evaluates potential outcomes and unintended circumstances. What if this happens and what do we do then. There needs to be a complete set of evaluated responses. Rarely do the initial objectives achieve the expected political outcome. You also can't have ever changing or ill defined political goals or objectives. Simply look at the Vietnam conflict and the sand wars as examples of ill defined and ever changing "goals".

I suspect there is little support within the U.S. popualtion for a ground campaign. And we certainly can't have a repeat of the 1960's chaos.
 
Ernst said:
Simply look at the Vietnam conflict and the sand wars as examples of ill defined and ever changing "goals".
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Speaking of sand wars, I'm not a military historian or tactician or anything like that. But I'm aware enough to know that a ground war in Iran will be Iraq/Afghanistan together x2. I honestly give zero fucks about Iran or its people--the status quo in January would have been fine with me. Sorry the civilians got killed but that's how you quiet dissension. I wouldn't mind seeing more ruthless treatment of protestors here.

The Persians have been tunneling for decades if not centuries. And them bunker busters cost money! :eek: How many of those will we have to use. :( Forget the urban guerilla warfare which will be an entirely different challenge. Everyone is correct in that a ground war will eventually be needed to succeed. This military action has to potential to go on for years, if not decades. Trumpy has screwed the pooch halfway here. Neither going in harder or backing out are viable options without losing face. Instead, he is going to get fired by impeachment...
 
Politicians don’t fight wars but it seems they can readily lose them.

I am pretty sure we are looking for locals and Iranians to prosecute any guerrilla style ground war.

But if we do go in on the ground we will have the finest overwatch.

We will spot them as soon as they peek out of their holes.

Now our LGBTQIA2+Queerpedo Congress simply won’t declare war on the country that has been terrorizing us and screaming “Death to America” for nearly five decades.

Too chickenshit as a whole. They let it just fester and swell. 47 years of evil they ignore every day.

It’s Trump or nothing fellows. Take your pick.
 
You are not going to have a guerilla style ground war unless you get the masses to stand up!

And indiscriminate bombing and drone strikes of civilian infrastructure including schools doesn't win the hearts and minds of the populous.

Plus you must cultivate local leadership who will organize the masses. The American military can help with equipment and tactics but the locals are the ones who must act.

And in 47 years nothing has happend!
 
Remembering the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967

During the fourth day of the Six-Day War, on 8 June 1967, a United States Navy intelligence ship came under continuous deadly attack from Israeli forces in international waters.

Over the course of an hour, the USS Liberty was struck repeatedly by Israeli fighter jets and torpedo boats, which killed thirty-four crew members and seriously wounded 171 others, according to official counts.

Although Israel later claimed the assault was a case of mistaken identity, the event sparked decades of suspicion and unresolved accusations, particularly among survivors and intelligence officials who believed the truth had been buried to protect the US-Israeli relationship during the Cold War.

As a signals intelligence ship, the USS Liberty (AGTR-5), which was a Belmont-class technical research ship, had been assigned to collect and monitor electronic communications off the coast of the Sinai Peninsula, where intense fighting was underway between Israel and its Arab neighbours.

The Liberty displaced over 10,000 tons and had specialised SIGINT equipment, was operating under the command of Captain William L. McGonagle, carrying a crew of 294, including Navy personnel, Marines, and National Security Agency technicians.

According to Navy records, the ship, which displayed a large American flag, bore standard hull markings and had no combat role.

It had arrived in the region on 7 June and had begun operations within range of both Israeli and Egyptian military communications.
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Ernst said:
You are not going to have a guerilla style ground war unless you get the masses to stand up!

And indiscriminate bombing and drone strikes of civilian infrastructure including schools doesn't win the hearts and minds of the populous.

Plus you must cultivate local leadership who will organize the masses. The American military can help with equipment and tactics but the locals are the ones who must act.

And in 47 years nothing has happend!
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Reportedly, 45,000 are dead in Iran, killed by their own govt for rebelling.

Or perhaps it was just a peaceful protest?

Something certainly has happened. The arabs are supporting Israel against Iran.

Not all of them do, but some and I think it will continue.

It’s been 47 years, but you and I might not live to see a real resolution. I don’t care.

We lived to see the spark.
 
@Ernst
I don’t want to rehash the whole Liberty incident, but until I looked into it a little more there were a few things I didn’t realize.

The liberty had been ordered to pull back 100 miles from the scene and did not do that. It was theorized they never got the order.

It’s entirely possible that the Egyptian ships in the neighborhood were jamming communications. It’s also a possibility there was a blunder in the US communications.

In any event Israel sent a rescue operation to retrieve men in the water, who they believed to be Egyptian. They were looking to capture Egyptian officers.

If this was a false flag attack intended to draw America into the war, they wouldn’t have rescued Americans who had seen Israeli planes coming. They would’ve left no witnesses. They really did not need our immediate help at that time because they had already completely destroyed the enemy air forces.

At the time the Israelis were still flying French jets, but trying to acquire advanced American weapons and our alliance. The idea that they sank our ship on purpose, whether or not it was an accident, seems silly.

I believe that in the end all the official determinations stated the causes were accidental.

But I guess this is something that gets dredged up every time we have a serious need for alliance with Israel.
 
Kind of like the questionable incident in the Gulf of Tonkin in August 1964 with the USS Maddox.

Lots of opinions and misinformation back in the day led to a very critical decision by President Johnson on the adivce of Secretary McNamara which change the entire Vietnam War.

The administration was eager to widen the Vietnam War!

I firmly believe we should bring up these types of incidents on the day they happened so people will remember history. Certainly not taught in school anymore!
 
Good morning. We are in the midst of muggies this week. With the rain last weekend and temps in the 90s it’s no wonder.

If Iranian citizens had the tools all of us in this forum had things could be much different there. Hopefully during this lull action has/is being taken to provide them with the tools needed. Keyword hopefully.

You all have a great day.
 
The friend/foe question is a big problem.
Alliances have certainly muddied.

I was hoping all the other friendly mid-east countries had enough local-looking agents in Iran to promote the rebels.
 
Today I set up a tiny guitar test amp.

The amp is from an old PC: 5 watts bridged stereo, now pushing six 3” speakers. Two 4 ohm and one 8 ohm on each channel, configured as 4ohm arrays.

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This is supposed to run from 4.5 to 15vdc.

I ran it on 9 vdc, then 12. It is supposed to handle 15 volts, but the IC “amp on a chip” gets pretty hot, even on 12.

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