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I just love obscure historical weapons

John A.

Unconstitutional laws are not laws.
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Many of my close friends who know me well, knows that I like old obscure weapons. The more obscure and rare, the better.

I have a champagne taste on a beggers budget. Sadly, most of the guns that I would give my eye teeth for, would be so expensive that I'd never be able to afford them. And not only that, just getting the paperwork to own an original, is out of the question because the government rarely ever would get rid of them.

In this particular case, it's an old WW2 clandestine OSS issued integrally suppressed handgun meant to assassinate targeted German officials and the wheels that were driving their war machine and scientists and sympathizers.

Oddly enough, that little gun has been pulled out of the storage cabinet and used in every major conflict since WW2. There are records of it being used in Vietnam. Afghanistan. And probably a lot of places you'll never hear about.

And the most widely known one, was captured by the Russians when Mr. Gary Powers was shot down in his U2 spyplane in the 1960's. This incident was my main driving factor to want one. Mostly because I think Mr. Powers got a bad rap by the US Government. But as an equally personal importance, it's because he was born in the next county over from me and I've done work in the house he was raised in during his childhood. I've always had a large amount of respect for him. Not that my town has also had Medal of Honor recipients and a deep community pride but I have a lot of respect for those folks who risked it all. There was even a gentleman that was in the first Navy Frogman team assembled (later the underwater demolitions) that the navy seals later stemmed from.

Anyway, I don't want to sound disrespectful to all of those who weren't the first or got the most medals because I know that each one risked everything to do the right thing. There are countless numbers of men who did equally amazing things that we'll never know about.

I guess with no further jabbering, I wanted to introduce my High Standard HD-Military host gun that my wife got for me for our 20th wedding anniversary. That is the basis for how this gun started out. During WW2, the war department ordered some 2800 guns made that were integrally suppressed so they could carry out their missions as quietly as possible. Bell Labs designed the suppressor.

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Ironically, the "baffles" were nothing more than rolled up wire mesh screen. Since US gun laws are the way they are, I was unable (unwilling) to use wire screen in mine due to the screen needing to be replaced every 250 rounds or so. Mainly because I would need to send the gun/silencer off to an SOT licensed manufacturer and pay them to replace them for me. So, I used a more modern internal baffle that will last a lifetime and should never need replaced, barring something catastrophic from happening.

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I was concerned about only having around 4 inches of room to add baffles in front of the muzzle, especially considering the inside diameter was under .800" to the inside of the silencer tube. But it worked out better than I had expected.

The hardest thing about the project was being able to pull the old barrel. I'm not going to lie. That was tough. The portion of the barrel inside of the receiver had some high spots in it that made it very difficult to remove. I finally resorted to sandwiching the receiver between some pine planks and getting it in a vise and using channel locks to get the barrel loose. Which obviously scratched up the exterior of the barrel pretty bad. But all of that was inconsequential to me because I was going to put the barrel in a lathe and reprofile it anyway. Yep. You can see the scuffs and marring on the barrel.

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I turned the barrel down so up next to the receiver was the proper diameter to make 5/8-24" threads (the same as what's on most 30 caliber rifle barrels) so I could make a rear mount to screw onto it. And I threaded the front of the barrel at the muzzle 1/2-28 (which is what most 22 caliber barrels are threaded) so I can make a support piece to go in the front. This not only helps support the outer tube, but it keeps the gas that's ported out of the barrel that bleeds off some of the gas and bullet velocity to drop below supersonic levels, it also gives the modernized baffles and expansion spacer a place to seat against. So while it's not historically correct, I'm not kissing government ass no more than I have to. So, I designed it how I wanted it to be.

Here's a quick picture of how the barrel looked after I took it off of my lathe and before I ported it and reblued it.
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When I got the barrel put back on the gun, I did some testing to see what the velocities were with several common brands of ammo. The long story short is that Remington and Winchester supersonic bullets stayed well below the speed of sound, making even them pretty quiet to shoot. The CCI Standards (which are rated at 1070 fps from the factory) were shooting near 750 fps which is along the lines of what their CCI quiet bullets are rated at, and after I smoothed the action, even they cycled, so I was very happy with that.

That was basically all I could do with the project until after I got approval besides thinking about how I wanted to make it.

One other internal change that I did from the original, was incorporated a way to use a rubber wipe in the suppressor. After hearing it both with and without the wipe, the wipe does decrease the sound of the shot, even without the wipe, it's very pleasant sounding and I doubt I'll ever use it. But, there were other guns in the period (like the Welrod) that used wipes, so while not historically correct for this particular gun, I figured why not?

Here's the wipe material and how I mark it with the aluminum. It creates a little circle that I cut out with scissors.

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Here's the piece that I made that holds the wipe in place. It sandwiches between the front endcap and the final baffle skirt.

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And the front view after putting a few shots through it

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Alright, enough about the internals, now about the external. I made it so that it's essentially the same diameter and length as the original. If you look at the picture above though, I didn't use a blade front sight. I initially used a 3-56 winchester shotgun fiber optic bead because it was simpler and there was really no need to reinvent the wheel trying to made a blade that I would need to solder in place. I suck at welding, so take my word for it. Using the shotgun bead thread was a better way for me to do it.

It turns out, the fiber optic bead was a little too tall and was causing me to shoot a little low. So, I ended up replacing it with a small .130" brass shotgun bead, which brought the point of impact/aim much closer together. Now, it was shooting about an inch low. I can live with that. Before, it was a couple inches low at 25 yards. I don't have any pictures of the brass shotgun bead, but I don't think any of you would not be able to picture in their head how that looks.

The originals had an indexing screw on the bottom of the tube. This was mainly used so the tube wouldn't come loose and your sight picture would change. Originally, their indexing screw was on the bottom and hidden and more aesthetic I'm sure, but I put mine at the 12o'clock position so it doesn't vibrate loose and fall out with gravity. I'm sorry, but I just believe that putting it on the bottom was asking for trouble. While putting it on the top, makes more sense to me. The little tiny #4-40 allen screw goes through the silencer tube, through the rear mount, and seats into the barrel threads. This prevents the tube from movement entirely. I don't have the screw in it in this pic below, but does show where it goes into the parts. It seats flush with the external surface of the silencer and doesn't stick out at all. So, you don't notice it while shooting whatsoever.

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Like the original, I used a steel tube for the body. Mainly so I could use bluing on it and match the rest of the gun. I could've saved some weight and work by using aluminum, but I didn't want to do that.

Pic below is how it looked with it's other OSS kin.

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Since the forum has a 10000 character post limit, here's part two.

Another thing I would like to mention that I did for this project. My youngest son had found a wooden box in a thrift shop and gave it to me. It was a plain wooden box. He had later glued some red velvet around the inside of it.

Since I had the box, I thought that it would work great for this. The originals came in a plain cardboard box. But, I don't care. I thought the project needed something a little more worthy to display it in.

So, I cut out some wood and fitted the gun in the box. The box had so much extra room in it that I made a small hinged door inside where I can keep the spare mags, parts, and government paperwork. I also had some room between the muzzle of the silencer and the inside of the box, so I made another divider that holds a bunch of 22 bullets in it along with the gun.

Here's a few pictures of that while I was waiting for the paperwork to make the silencer.
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But that's not all I did to the box.

While waiting on the paperwork, I found an original box for sale on ebay. While the box was roached out and not worth the asking price in my opinion, I did get a screenshot of the "artwork".

Artwork may be the wrong term to use, so I'll say graphics. This is the screenshot.

XGXsQSH.jpg


So, since my wife has a printer that she can use to make Iron on T shirt transfers, I used it to make a rough facsimile on her computer program and basically did an iron-on transfer straight to the lid of the wooden box that closely resembles the original graphics on the factory boxes. I went over some of the border really quickly so it wouldn't heat up as much and transfer properly. I did that to give it more of a worn and aged look and was intentional.

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Now that you have seen the condensed 5 minute version of a project that took me the better part of a few months of my life to make, you may be wondering how it sounds.

Pretty dad-gone good. I honestly believe that it sounds better in person than it does in the video. You just don't want to stop shooting the little thing.

These are with the supersonic bullets. Subsonic bullets are even more quiet. The evening I first took it out for its' maiden voyage, the camera battery died before I had the chance to shoot the subsonics through it.

 
Very nice work John...!!

Just to show the differences between UK/US, over here, that would not be considerered a silencer/suppressor/moderator, as its integral to the gun.
(There used to be a long barrelled pistol ("K22 Whisper") available here which was integrally suppressed, and you didn't need to have a "slot" on your FAC for a moderator to buy one... just a slot for a .22rf long barrel pistol.)

In the Uk its much easier to get authorised for a moderator nowadays... they used to limited to pest controllers/stalkers, but now under "Health and Safety" rules, you can get them for normal range work.

We just have to get a slot on your FAC for them, then go to your LGS and buy one... £30-£100 for a rimfire moderator, £200-£500 for a C/F.

My MVP LC .308 is moderated, as is my .223 Steyr AUG, and most of my rimfire rifles... :D
 
I didn't know that they wouldn't count if they were integral. I learned something new today. It's really a shame that we're not allowed to own them here, unless we pay a $200 tax for each one (I have designed and made almost a dozen of them now because I enjoy it so much). And almost all of them are integrally suppressed. I have only made 3 suppressors that I can use on multiple guns.

We're not limited to how many we can own based on some arbitrary number on a slot. Only by how many we can afford to have. At the end of the day, both methods suck. If it weren't for the bullshit regulations, I could've bought the raw materials to make that silencer for about $35.

But, by the time I registered this and paid for postage to mail the paperwork/fingerprints and had to pay $45 for engraving, the $200 tax, that $35 silencer was essentially $300.

In no frame of mind is that fair or good to have to pay 100% increase in cost, especially since I was the one to make it myself.

Sadly, many people in the USA only see and hear silencers in the movies, which as we both know, is not representative of how they sound in real life. So, there is a stigma associated with them based on sheer ignorance, but that mindset has been slowing changing now that there are around 2 million silencers in the registery in the US. More and more people are using them on a regular basis and in public.
 
John,

You continue to fascinate me with your specialized guns and overall knowledge, not to mention your design and machining skills.

I lack all of those traits.
 
I didn't know that they wouldn't count if they were integral. I learned something new today. It's really a shame that we're not allowed to own them here, unless we pay a $200 tax for each one (I have designed and made almost a dozen of them now because I enjoy it so much). And almost all of them are integrally suppressed. I have only made 3 suppressors that I can use on multiple guns.

We're not limited to how many we can own based on some arbitrary number on a slot. Only by how many we can afford to have. At the end of the day, both methods suck. If it weren't for the bullshit regulations, I could've bought the raw materials to make that silencer for about $35.

But, by the time I registered this and paid for postage to mail the paperwork/fingerprints and had to pay $45 for engraving, the $200 tax, that $35 silencer was essentially $300.

In no frame of mind is that fair or good to have to pay 100% increase in cost, especially since I was the one to make it myself.

Sadly, many people in the USA only see and hear silencers in the movies, which as we both know, is not representative of how they sound in real life. So, there is a stigma associated with them based on sheer ignorance, but that mindset has been slowing changing now that there are around 2 million silencers in the registery in the US. More and more people are using them on a regular basis and in public.

We have to request "slots" on our FAC's for firearms, and the police approve them... within reason..

Moderators also have to go in a Slot, same as a firearm.. its not unusual to people apply for multiple moderators which can be changed, at no charge, for firearms.
However, a moderator isn't linked to a specific firearm... i have a slot for a .22rf moderator, but have 3 rimfire rifles, so the mod can be used on any of them... I also have a .223 moderator, which also could go on any of them...

There are often rumours that "they" are going to remove moderators from licencing completely, which would be great, but personally i can't see it... I can't imaging them ever making things easier for shooters!!
 
John,

You continue to fascinate me with your specialized guns and overall knowledge, not to mention your design and machining skills.

I lack all of those traits.


Thanks for the compliment nitesite.

Skill is probably not the term I'd use though. I'm self taught and probably do most of it wrong. I have no formal training whatsoever. There are times when I struggle to figure something out and have to spend some time researching things. Major and minor diameters when it comes to threading for instance is something that I always have to look up in charts. Especially on firearm thread pitches because they're often different than "standard" or "traditional" thread pitches. Lots of stuff really. Thankfully, there is a lot of information that you can take some time and figure things out. I have a lot of things like that printed out on a clipboard that I keep hanging up on the pegboard behind my lathe so I can reference through them when I need to.

The knowledge comes from immersing myself trying to learn the background and history of things. I couldn't tell you how many conversations I've been part of on various forums and from looking at different patents and stuff.

I always did enjoy history (except specific dates). And silencers has kept my interest for more than a couple of decades now. It's just something I enjoy doing. I enjoy challenging myself trying to make it as quiet as possible. Each design is different and I like the challenge.

So, that's what drives me to make them. I just enjoy learning and doing. If it ever got where it wasn't enjoyable to me, it will be time to find something else to do with my time.
 
Wow, that is just a fantastic reproduction John! The pistol and the DeLisle carbine sure make a great period appropriate picture too.

I just found this thread today and as usual you just floor me with your ability and creativity. Nicely done brother, nicely done!

:perfect:
 
Thanks Cmcdonald. I appreciate the compliment. This is just something I enjoy doing. And not to mention, beside actually figuring out how to make it and then making it, I enjoy history. The more obscure the better.

If I could make a welrod or liberator pistol, I would.
 
Thanks Cmcdonald. I appreciate the compliment. This is just something I enjoy doing. And not to mention, beside actually figuring out how to make it and then making it, I enjoy history. The more obscure the better.

If I could make a welrod or liberator pistol, I would.
It's funny but as I was reading the introduction of your project the first gun that came to my mind was the Welrod. Yours is much prettier than a Welrod but maybe just a tad more obscure. LOL!
 
Very few liberators still exist. Most are in private museums.

I do know of two actual welrods. And neither of them are in the USA. I know a guy in New Zealand that has an original, but he reverse engineered it and made an exact replica, which he does shoot.

I have some video somewhere of him shooting it and it's pretty quiet. And he's making hits with it at fairly longer distances than most people would expect possible considering that he's shooting through a wipe. Whoever started the wives tale that wipes make a gun inherently inaccurate, ummm. Was too opinionated and hadn't actually done it.

If you can make hits at 50 and 75 yards, standing. Off hand with a handgun. It'll be alright.
 
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