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Jawbones for home defense

Djcala

Djcala

.30-06
Supporter
Wasnt sure to post in ammo, defense, or trash ??
So to stir the proverbial pot, for all the experts myself included who say birdshot is not for Home defense, perhaps we are wrong depending on many factoids of course. But for the bedside or last stand room perhaps a winner for recoil sensitive and or recipient big hole in torso sensitive. It's our fun replace the burn barrel day , and in the mix to aerate the new steel 55gallon drum was one mossy 500 and some slugs of course I had try a #6 cause it was here. Well kids 5 yard aka 15ft thats one shot one interesting "wound cavity" on a clean piece of steel. How does that equate to plastering late nite visitor in the den I have no clue , but id sure launch it with confidence :ripper:. Perhaps skin bones and a belly full of Red Bull and linguini would fare better ???
Enjoy feel free to argue and debate amongs yourselves :lol:
 

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I should say, my home D shotty is loaded with 4 (yep 4) slugs , side saddle holds some buckshot and birdshot. This allows me quick options as needed here in the deep dark hollers where the wildlings roam, and if I positively absolutely must put something 6 ft under right very now no twitching the Slug is king. My way ymmv
 
I've done similar testing.

My final conclusion, the shot hadn't had time to separate from the wad, and thus pretty much hits in a very small, tight, clump.

I do know of at least one instance where an older guy shot a bad guy from inside his closet and as you would expect, yes it did kill the bad guy.

It's just that once the pellets do lose kinetic energy and start moving throughout a body, the question then becomes "do the pellets have enough mass to penetrate deep enough to matter?".

Shot placement is key of course, but I like slugs if using a shotgun mainly for defense. But within a home, 00 works well too. It's like 8 or 9 shots of 357 magnum hitting something simultaneously. That would make for a very bad day too.

Birdshot will kill you at close range. Likely even sever limbs up close. I had a friend in High school that lost his leg from the knee down because of that. But I don't want to chance it.
 
John A. said:
I've done similar testing.

My final conclusion, the shot hadn't had time to separate from the wad, and thus pretty much hits in a very small, tight, clump.

I do know of at least one instance where an older guy shot a bad guy from inside his closet and as you would expect, yes it did kill the bad guy.

It's just that once the pellets do lose kinetic energy and start moving throughout a body, the question then becomes "do the pellets have enough mass to penetrate deep enough to matter?".

Shot placement is key of course, but I like slugs if using a shotgun mainly for defense. But within a home, 00 works well too. It's like 8 or 9 shots of 357 magnum hitting something simultaneously. That would make for a very bad day too.

Birdshot will kill you at close range. Likely even sever limbs up close. I had a friend in High school that lost his leg from the knee down because of that. But I don't want to chance it.
Click to expand...

Had I took a picture inside of drum , you would basicly very very light evidence of pellet strikes on opposite side almost unnoticeable. That basically follows your thoughts and tests. One thing I cant avoid though, penetration of course kills but so does blunt force once its a certain level, ie if ya hit me in chest full on with 10# war hammer im dead with little or no penetration possibly yet a massive "shock wave" for lack of better term. But that of leads to how does say a level 3 or greater handle a 12bore slug ??meaning if it stops it whats survivability
 
There is a lot to be said for blunt force trauma.

It can and will shut you down. It can even stop your heart even if it doesn't make it through armor. Break bones. Make for a very bad day.

I still prefer slugs or 00 in a shotgun though for anything that can either eat, or outright kill me.

I don't pretend to know if it will help, but I have a carrier with AR500 in it. Behind the AR500, I have closed cell foam behind the plate. I don't know if it would help absorb some of the impact or spread it over a greater area or not. But I still have a piece in there for that very reason.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DOOR-PAD-3...-BAR-PADING-SEAT-SUPPORTS-14115-/130900562401
 
John A. said:
There is a lot to be said for blunt force trauma.

It can and will shut you down. It can even stop your heart even if it doesn't make it through armor. Break bones. Make for a very bad day.

I still prefer slugs or 00 in a shotgun though for anything that can either eat, or outright kill me
I don't pretend to know if it will help, but I have a carrier with AR500 in it. Behind the AR500, I have closed cell foam behind the plate. I don't know if it would help absorb some of the impact or spread it over a greater area or not. But I still have a piece in there for that very reason.

This is what I'm talking about.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DOOR-PAD-3...-BAR-PADING-SEAT-SUPPORTS-14115-/130900562401
Click to expand...

I'm a Slug-o-maniac will not change, seen hands on over and over again the finality they bring.
I'm really liking that foam , behind 500 possible broken bone bruise savor. Uggghhh gotta use in the A.C. though :santa:
 
I keep the vest beside my bed. You know, just in case I start hearing bumps and rustling when I shouldn't be hearing bumps and rustles.
 
I believe it is all about the specific range. Birdshot at 5 yards? Yep. 10 yards? Maybe. 15 yards? No. I would honestly say that means it would probably work in all the encounters I'd be likely to have. I don't like "probably" nor "likely". I'm probably never going to need a firearm at all. And even if I do, I'm likely to be fine with whatever it is loaded with. I'm gonna stick to buckshot. You pays your money, you makes your choice. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
An old guy once told me that the thing to do is always put bird shot in your first load whether you're shooting a shotgun or revolver or rifle.

If you don't need it you can always rack it out but at night you always want small shot for your first shot.

If you hit him straight on he's dead but if you just hit him with one pellet he's going to scream and then you will know where to start putting the bullets even in the dark.

George Washington liked buck and ball, and so do I.

I'm using hybrid loads with different size shot. A typical 16 gauge defense load gets two .38 caliber pellets surrounded by number 4 shot.

But that's my second shot. My first shot is number 7, and I mess with the wad so they will spread the pattern out a lot.

A 16 gauge coach gun is my choice for home defense.

But it's not an shtf solution. I have other arms for that.
 
My $.02... Everybody saying that a kill shot with birdshot (or a .410, or a .22, or a golf club, or a sharp stick...) is possible are completely right. They are possible. But when it comes to protecting the lives of myself and my loved ones, I want to prepare the best I can. That means choosing tools that make success probable, not just possible. I seriously doubt that anyone who can manage to own a shotgun and buy shells to go bird hunting cannot afford to buy a single box of 00 buck for the purpose of self defense. If you just don't care about preparing self defense and then find yourself pressed into a SD situation, yes, any gun at hand with any ammo is better than nothing. But if you have any pretensions of preparedness, and you wouldn't be posting in the "Tactical and Home Defence" forum if you didn't, then intentionally preparing with a less effective load is willful ignorance, if not willful negligence.
 
Back on the topic of birdshot for HD. The biggest problem I see is that the pellets don't have enough individual mass to continue through the body and cause the kind of bone and tissue damage that slugs or buckshot can cause. They just slow down too fast. Even though they may seem to be one solid mass when they hit at close range, they really aren't. They dissipate their energy too fast to be as effective as a load designed to take down larger animals. Sure, they'll hurt like hell, but they don't have the ability to quickly incapacitate like a big chunk (or several) of lead has. Again, its better than nothing if that's all you have, but given time to prepare, I'd rather have slugs, buck or both.
 
Look at the cartridge's intended use and extrapolate to what it would be good for defending from.
If you have a bird size assailant then birdshot is the ticket.
If the assailant has mass similar to a mule deer then 00 buckshot has a much better chance of doing the job.
 
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