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Looking for hot .357 data

John A.

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Good evening men.

I'm looking for some 357 load data for some hot defensive loads. In no particular order, these would be used primarily for black bear, whitetail, and 2 legged varmints.

I have found 3 loads that I am wanting to try and I'm going to write them down to make it easier if you know of one that may be better, please let me know. Also, all of these charges are the max listed charge so actual numbers will probably come in a little lower than advertised.

The first.

The velocity of it is supposed to be through a 10 inch barrel in their data. Which is long for a revolver and short for a carbine and kind of skews the data, but I also use a single shot NEF Pardner with a 16 inch barrel sometimes when I'm hunting. But let's pretend that I'm only going to be using a 6 inch revolver in the meantime because that is mostly what I carry when I'm checking my trail cameras and walking up to the cabin.

I have shot some of these and they have some kick to them. You can really feel the butt of the gun digging into your hand when you fire them.

125 gr Hornady XTP bullet

9.7 gr Longshot ~1647 fps (10 inch barrel)

1.590" COL

42,000 (Cup--I don't know why they didn't just do psi for their chamber pressure, but this is what's listed in their data)

------------------------------------

Load 2 looks the most promising to me in a few different ways. Data is also with a 6 inch barrel and when I'm hunting with the carbine, should add some velocity. How much I don't know because the powder burns pretty quick which makes the pressure peak quick, but at least some increase in velocity should be observed in the longer barrel anyway.

Also, the chamber pressure is lower, which makes me think there will be less recoil and allow little faster follow up shots if I need them and those two reasons are why I am favoring this recipe at the moment.

125 gr Hdy XTP bullet

18.0 gr Enforcer powder (~1667 fps 6 inch barrel

1.580 COL

32,570 chamber pressure

-------------------------------------

Load 3 looks pretty similar to load 2 though has higher pressures and lower velocity.

125 gr Nosler JHP bullet

15.6 gr #9 powder (~1567 fps 6 inch barrel)

1.575" COL

35,178 chamber pressure
-------------------------------------

Now for a @nitesite question. Do you think the powder coated cast 158 gr wadcutters will foul up the barrel from the hotter faster burning powders? Or should I stick with jacketed bullets for those HD and hunting loads.

I know I'll have to use different data drop the charges some because of the heavier weight bullet and I know velocity would drop from the heavier bullets too, but for bears, I prefer a hardcast bullet with the most penetration to get way down into the vitals rather than expanding in their thick fat.

That was just another thing I was thinking of.

So, I come asking for advice and guidance.
 
John~

As you know, the XTP bullet holds up well in tissue compared to many other jacketed hollow point bullets. I think deer and two-legged creatures wouldn't stand a chance.

As far as those 158-gr cast LSWC powder coated bullets, I think you can drive them pretty hard; your barrel will decide based on chatter marks and bore roughness. The choice of powder won't really matter since the bullet base is coated. If they do well in your revolver and carbine let me know and I'll send some more. :)

You and I agree that a solid bullet is much more preferable on bear compared to a light hollow point.
 
John,

If I were loading ammo for your single shot rifle, as I mentioned in a previous thread the choice I would make is the 180-gr XTP loaded long and crammed with an assload of a really slow burning powder like 2400 or 296 or #9 or H110
 
John~

My single shot rifle chamber has a chamber leade that is cut sooooo long that this is where the lands contact a 180-gr XTP when using a .357-Magnum case. That allows for some darn near .357 Maximum territory loads my friend!!!!! I use a small rifle magnum primer and seat to the lower cannelure and fill with wild abandon some Alliant 2400 and then put a heavy roll crimp on 'em.

Safe thing is these won't chamber in any other firearm.

 
John~
My single shot rifle chamber has a chamber leade that is cut sooooo long that this is where the lands contact a 180-gr XTP when using a .357-Magnum case. That allows for some darn near .357 Maximum territory loads my friend!!!!!



Ok, you have peaked my interest. Want to know more about your process for that. Did you push it in with your finger and close the action fully and let it drop out to see what the OAL was after it was out?

Seeing how they're the same model gun, I would assume that both may be cut near the same, but I would check mine anyway before trying it because we both know companies contract out to different places to meet demand and quota and mine may be a lot shorter throat. And yes, that is a long jump to the lands. I can see how you can supercharge the case. I'm wondering what kind of velocity you're getting with them?

I know on mine, I can shoot 38 and 357 with the same grain bullet and POI shift is minimal. I can shoot either off hand at 75 yards with a scope and ring my 8 inch gongs with either bullet without having to touch the scope. That would be a gigantic jump to reach the lands for the 38.

I've seen guys slug their chamber with cerrosafe, but I've never see it done quite like that before. Then I'm going to have to figure out how to determine where to stop dumping powder in so I don't compress it too. That's a whole different thing there altogether.

The whole reason why I prefer not to use a HP on bear is I don't want to waste performance where the HP fills up and starts expanding and slowing down sooner. We have some very big dumpster diving bears. Some upwards of 600 pounds and not something you want to piss off. I'd rather not leave anything to chance.

trailcam81812004.jpg


bigbear.jpg


And even if they're not heavyweights, I have not doubt that this one would and could kill you and feed you to her babies just because you were there. There's no way you could out run her or fight all of them off. No way whatsoever.

bear%20cubs%20and%20momma_zpsydpve1ac.jpg
 
Great bear pics. Wow. That middle pic I would love to have a .45-70 to feel comfortable.

To find my OAL without Cerrosafe I just pushed it in with my finger and closed the action Then I used a 1/4" wood dowel down the muzzle to barely give it a tap and that is the way it fell out.

My 180-gr Handi-Rifle load is about 1.5-grains OVER MAX of Alliant 2400 and rifle primer for the .357 Magnum Hornady data and it chronos @ 1540-fps. That is way below the 17.0 grain MAX load for .357 Maximum so I am confident that I could probably go a little higher. I have some new Maximum brass and will one day have the chamber reamed for that cartridge. But Hornady says that 17.0 grains of 2400 and the 180 XTP in Maximum brass goes only 1400-fps so I am already well over that velocity (meaning I will just leave it where I am).

Brass just falls out after firing and primers look quite normal.

And like I said, these cannot possibly go in any other gun I have that is chambered in .357 Magnum.

I really like this load. :)
 
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For really hot 357 loads I like to use H-110 or Winchester 296. I use Xtreme 158 Grn RNFP Copper plated bullets and have had very good luck with them. I also use XTP's, Nosler and Remington JHP bullets. For a hot target or practice load I cast a hard 158 GRN SWC bullet and gas check them. You can shoot them as fast as you can without fouling or lead problems.
 
For really hot 357 loads I like to use H-110 or Winchester 296. I use Xtreme 158 Grn RNFP Copper plated bullets and have had very good luck with them. I also use XTP's, Nosler and Remington JHP bullets. For a hot target or practice load I cast a hard 158 GRN SWC bullet and gas check them. You can shoot them as fast as you can without fouling or lead problems.

Sounds really good Terry.
 
Thanks for the reply Terry. Glad you're feeling well.

I don't mind checking into those powders. I'll be needing to make a powder and primer order in a few months anyway at the rate I'm going. Especially for the ramshot tac that I'm using in my 223's. I've went through almost a whole pound of it the last 4 or 5 weeks getting some of what I shot up over the summer loaded back up while the weather isn't as cooperative to be out shooting.

I've only recently started looking at xtreme bullets. With them being associated with freedom munitions, I am cautiously optimistic in them after seeing how Freedom is using those stepped internal ledge cases in their 9mm, and apparently their 45 brass now too.

I had a very bad experience resulting from an OOB and subsequent squib from their brass in my submachine gun.

However, I did order 500 45acp Primed brass from them for about $65 shipped, which I thought was a good price. I ordered the reprocessed brass from them rather than their "new" brass.

I had a large assortment of brass from Remington, Winchester, federal, fiocchi, CCI, S&B and many others. Only found 2 issues with primers seated upside down so the rest should work alright. I've finally got them prepped for powder and bullet seating now.

I have been ordering a lot of my actual bullets from natchez for hornady 223 and midsouth shooter supply for a lot of other calibers and I really made out like a bandit at berry's bullets in their blems on black Friday. I was able to get 1k 147 gr round nose 9mm bullets and 250 158 gr round nose .357 delivered for $70. That was about a $45 or $50 savings of what they normally run. I was pretty happy about it.
 
@nitesite

I checked the chamber in my NEF pardner barrel.

Looks like they're both cut about the same. Though I used a 125 gr xtp rather than a 180 because I didn't have one that long.

I started the bullet into the case and dropped it into the chamber and closed it, and it still didn't seat any deeper than it was while I barely started it into the brass.

I also didn't have to tap it out. With the extractor, I was able to just pull the case out with my fingers.

357 handirifle throat 002.JPG
 
Thanks for the reply Terry. Glad you're feeling well.

I don't mind checking into those powders. I'll be needing to make a powder and primer order in a few months anyway at the rate I'm going.
you need those powders for the 300blk anyway .......for supers
 
I've shot some supers in it to get some of the brass that I started loading before I invested in the chop saw and cutting jigs to convert my own from 223 brass. They did pretty good. Especially considering the short barrel length.
 
@nitesite

I checked the chamber in my NEF pardner barrel.

Looks like they're both cut about the same. Though I used a 125 gr xtp rather than a 180 because I didn't have one that long.

I started the bullet into the case and dropped it into the chamber and closed it, and it still didn't seat any deeper than it was while I barely started it into the brass.

I also didn't have to tap it out. With the extractor, I was able to just pull the case out with my fingers.

View attachment 13829

Very cool pic. Longer bullet seating... less pressure. Just keep a good bullet roll crimp and build up some pressure with powder, crimp and primer that all comes together
@nitesite

I checked the chamber in my NEF pardner barrel.

Looks like they're both cut about the same. Though I used a 125 gr xtp rather than a 180 because I didn't have one that long.

I started the bullet into the case and dropped it into the chamber and closed it, and it still didn't seat any deeper than it was while I barely started it into the brass.

I also didn't have to tap it out. With the extractor, I was able to just pull the case out with my fingers.

View attachment 13829

John, after studying that pic of yours I am fairly certain that your bullet is were you started it with your finger and it never contacted the lands. You may have more chamber leade than what you are seeing. I know my 180 bullet jammed in because I very lightly tapped it back out.
 
Could you get a different result/measurement by starting a 158-gr SWC in backwards to seek the lands with more bullet length?
 
John, after studying that pic of yours I am fairly certain that your bullet is were you started it with your finger and it never contacted the lands. You may have more chamber leade than what you are seeing. I know my 180 bullet jammed in because I very lightly tapped it back out.

Too funny and very observant. I mentioned the same thing in a PM. I believe that I do have more chamber lead than shown in the photo. I used the hornady 125 gr xtp bullet because that was what I was going to use in that particular load.

Load data says max charge with enforcer powder shows 1660 fps from a 6 inch revolver. I'm curious what I can push it to from using the 16 inch barrel. That should have me smoking. Even seated just below the cannelure and plenty of room to work up more if I wanted to.
 
by the look of that test shell......you have no chamber end lol
I doubt the make a projectile long enough for a 38 to give you any limiting factor it appears your chamber is a mile long
 
Was able to finally do some shooting this evening.

Youngest son and I went out and was getting well under the expected FPS through the revolver (~1300 fps--was supposed to be upwards of 1600). Granted that I loaded them a grain and a half less than max because I wasn't sure what to expect from it being the first time I ever used this powder in 357.

The 16 inch barreled carbine was certainly walking the dog. Fired 2 shots at max load data (18.0 gr of enforcer) and from both shots got 1794 fps and 1854 fps respectively.

Not sure why I was getting so much spread, but I seated them a little long just to reduce some of the pressure considering it was my first try using this powder and also, none of them were crimped. Next batch, I'll seat them where it's supposed to be. I have no doubt that I'll be able to work my way up the ladder and have some really good defensive and hunting load with them.

They were really smacking the steel and rocking the gongs.
 
Nitesite, I have no doubt that you can get over 1900 fps from your Pardner.

Remember, I didn't load them beyond the max charge on the load data, and my barrel was shortened to 16 inches, and I'm sure your barrel is at least 18 1/2 inches, or more giving you an inherent velocity increase over what mine will do.

And then take into consideration that you can increase the powder charge, seat the bullet out farther and crimp and you'll be over m1 carbine velocity territory.
 
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