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Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag Pump Action Accumag Chokes

Rossignol

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Aannnnnd?

Haha! My bad.

I haven't counted pellets but I did 3 shots at 40 yards with the .690 Carlson's Coyote choke. Pattern density is definitely good at that distance. It's consistent among those three targets. I'll have to go back and find the data on the BB sized pellets to see longest distance for the minimum 3.5" penetration.

The pattern is good enough I'd be happy to buy more and keep it on hand. At this point I'm going to give a thumbs up on the 835/Carlson's/Winchester VarmintX 3" BB.

I'll get an average pellet count and a pic.
 

Rossignol

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Alrighty, 3 shots. My first was a little high, my second was better and I let my daughters boyfriend fire the third which was also a little off.

I'll show my second shot which I counted only the pellets at POA. The other two, I adjusted and counted POI.

Pellet counts were as follows;
#1 26 pellets
#2 24 pellets
#3 25 pellets

Averaging 25 pellets in 10" over the three shots, I could probably do a slightly tighter choke for these but I don't have anything between the .690 and .670 chokes.

835/.690 Carlson's Coyote choke/Winchester VarmintX 3" BB 1300 fps, 24 pellets in 10" @ 40 yards
image.jpeg
 

Rossignol

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I'm looking at this pattern again and I'm wondering about the choke constriction.

What does this pattern look like? It isn't especially circular which makes me think maybe the choke could be a little more open. I could try the factory choke. It's been too tight for any kind of buck shot and not tight enough with anything else I'm using.

Typically, with a not tight enough choke, the pattern is generally circular but wide. Too tight and it's a weird shape. The pattern pictured above is looking like a weird shape and it's patchy. I'm going to have to compare it with other patterns I've previously shot. I may have to consider a slightly more open choke. I'll give Trulock a call in the near future for their (his) opinion.
 

Rossignol

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Oh! Some good news!

The Winchester heavy weight B load I like, is available again without having to pay a $25 membership fee! It is more expensive than some of the other stuff I've been trialing. But it's also consistent through the Carlson's and dense enough to 50 yards and the heavy weight B will penetrate enough to that distance.

On the topic of penetration it looks like 50-55 yards is the limit for the lead BB.
 

Rossignol

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I talked to Trulock yesterday. I have an email in with them also regarding a few things so I'll update as more information becomes available.

They have a few new chokes introduced earlier this year. They are; the Deerslayer, Boarblaster, and Predator chokes. They do not list exit diameters in the catalogue for these. The lady I spoke with gave me the constriction on the Predator choke. She said they aren't listing them because they want competitors to their own homework but if someone asks they'll share it.

She also said that either George Trulock or another by the name of Scott will be getting back to me on some other topics, one of which should be patterns with the new Predator choke and various loads and I'm told I'm allowed to share them here.

What's unusual about the new chokes is that they are much longer than typical extended chokes which commonly extend about an inch and sometimes a little more. The new chokes have a much longer parallel section and I believe are about 4" long overall.

I spoke with them about my most recent pattern and they believe it may be over choked.

More to follow as I have it.
 

Rossignol

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For anyone following this or interested in varmint loads and chokes;

I fired another round of the new Winchester VarmintX through the factory "ultifull" .695 choke. The pattern looks better, it's more circular and therefore looks more dense than the previous patterns. I tried this because I believe the Carlson's coyote choke at .690 to be too tight based on the way the pattern looked like it was branching out or stringing.

I don't know that the .695 is the best constriction yet but it's better. I'm still interested in trying the Trulock predator choke as their new chokes are putting up some very good patterns with ShotLok loads from Winchester.

On that note, I never did hear back from Trulock.
 

ripjack13

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Send em another email. Probably got sidetracked. Show em you're still interested ....
 

Rossignol

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I've sent two emails and called. The lady I spoke with recognized my name from the emails and said she would have George call back and even put me on hold to let him know while I was on the phone and he acknowledged and said he would call or email.

People get busy. I understand. I'm still willing to try a couple of their choke tubes.

I also read somewhere, a guy saying he's using a Black Cloud choke (Black Cloud as in a choke made for use with the Federal load of the same name). He said he counted 30+ pellets in 10". He isn't using an 835 so I don't know how the constriction translates.
 

Rossignol

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It's been a while since I've patterned anything new but I still have some things in mind I hope to work on in the near future.

I spoke with a couple folks from Pattern Master today. I gave them my scenario and my goals, what I hope to accomplish. I initially inquired about the Anaconda choke tube but they, having spoken with a gentleman just today about a 65 yard coyote kill with their Code Black turkey choke, suggested looking into that.

The exit diameter of that is wider than what I'd consider to be in turkey choke range at .715 but they're saying it could be used with shot sizes 4 buck and smaller including heavier than lead and even FliteControl loads. It is ported but the design of the porting doesn't interfere with that type of load. (I have to add here that in speaking with them, I didn't get that they're fan boys and girls of Hevishot. That goes in the plus column for Pattern Master.) There is another Code Black choke for the UltiMag called Code Black big game. It's essentially a cylinder bore choke without porting (though it looks as if it is ported) but it has internal wad stripping studs and because of which they don't recommend FliteControl loads (or slugs even in standard 12 ga bore dimensions).

They also said that the technology of that choke has changed over the years and where one might have seen 7 pellets of buckshot in a 10" circle some recent years ago, they're seeing more like 17. The tech asked what kind of patterns I've been getting and after I told him, he too sounded less than impressed, sharing my sentiments. What they're saying is that this choke throws extra full patterns to 60 yards. I believe Shooter linked up a photo guide of what those patterns mean at distance both in this thread and in another thread titled understanding shotgun chokes. I'll have to find that.

If I can pull it off, I have 3 chokes I'd like to try. Pattern Master Code Black, Pattern Master Anaconda, and Trulock Predator. I'd like to try each with 3" 41 pellet 4 buck, Hornady Coyote BB, and Winchester VarmintX BB. Standard wad, FliteControl wad, and ShotLock respectively.

The Pattern Master is another one that has little in the way of published patterns available. It would be a risk somewhat though they too have a very liberal return or exchange policy. 30 days to try it out, if it doesn't meet expectations they'll refund or exchange it for something else till I find what I want. (Or anyone for that matter, not just me.)
 

Rossignol

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Here's a link to what I was thinking;

Understanding Shotgun Chokes

So by this graph and chart, an extra full pattern is said to be 70% in 45 yards and Pattern Master says extra full to 60 yards is what they expect.

For example, a 3" load of 4 buck contains 41 pellets. Traditionally, once could expect to see about 28 pellets in 30" (traditional wing shooting 30" circle) at 45ish yards. Pattern Master pushes that expectation of 28 pellets to 60 yards. From videos, the Trulock Predator looked somewhat more impressive.
 

Rossignol

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I'm gonna tell y'all about another choke I've come across in my searches. It's another high dollar choke tube but with a complete money back guarantee if not totally satisfied. I'd like to know if they also have an exchange policy similar to others so you can try other chokes until you get the right constriction.

Jebs Chokes run about $109. The technology is unique (not that others aren't also unique). If I'm understanding, their chokes use two forcing cones and two parallel sections alternately.

Here's what is most interesting to me;
The tightest Ultimag chokes I've found (835/935) are .675 and .670 exit diameters. Jebs makes a turkey choke with an exit diameter of .650. The Ultimag chokes are the only ones being constricted by a full tenth of an inch/+ already and the Jebs are constricted as much as .125. That number doesn't appear on any choke tube pattern chart or graph.
 

ripjack13

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Sounds like something I might like to see. I'll have to look for one....
 

Rossignol

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A couple of things on the Pattern Master chokes.

In looking at choke constrictions or exit diameters, they are generally really open. More than one would expect using conventional thinking to put together a choke/load combination. They don't rely on constriction as much as slowing/stopping momentarily/or stripping the wad away from the payload. They achieve this a couple or few ways using what they call stud rings which I believe are progressively stepped rings in the forcing cone section of the choke, and in the case of the Anaconda choke, a coil shaped gas ring inside of the choke uses the escaping gasses within the coil to grip the wad as it passes through the choke.

The patterns through these chokes are also affected by the length of the shell being used. A 3-1/2" shell has a longer wad and is therefore in contact with slowing portion of the choke longer. Is this to mean that a tighter pattern is achievable with larger loads compared to shorter loads or simply that like patterns are achieved despite having more shot crammed into the same space when most commonly too much shot bouncing around can negatively affect patterns?

Another ponderance I'm having about the Pattern Master. In some places the chokes will say a full pattern achieved at 60 yards. In others, an extra full pattern achieved at 60 yards. Looking at the link a couple or few posts above, full or extra full has more to do with distance in which one can expect a 70% pattern. So whether a full or extra full is to be expected at 60 yards, it's still supposed to represent a 70% pattern. I'm trying to sort through that and make sense of it. Somewhere I read or maybe in a video, someone said they were getting a full pattern in 10" at whatever the distance was, like 40 yards. Unfortunately I don't remember if it was a turkey load or what and by full I don't think he meant full as in choke constriction as much he meant all of the pellets. I do remember him saying there were just a few pellets outside the 10" and only as wide as 20" at the widest fliers. I'm thinking it must have been the Anaconda striker.

I'll have to call them again this next Friday for more info.
 
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Rossignol

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I sent Jebs Chokes an email over the weekend with some general questions on recommendations. Same stuff I've been doing here, predator loads and turkey. Here's their response;

"Mr. Brad, I have other customers that shoot the #4 buck as well, in the Mossberg 8-35 I think the .665 restrictioin would be a great place to start. As for shooting the Winchester XR Longbeards 3" - # 6 - we find the .650 restriction works super well."

So up to this point, the tightest choke I've used has been .670 for a 3" #6 shot. Some of the widest chokes Ive tried for any sort of buckshot to heavy weight loads to BB have been from .745 down to .690 with a couple in between. They're saying to start at .665 for a 3" #4 buck and all the way down to .650 for turkey loads! It sounds crazy but I really want to know more about their chokes to know how they get to these constrictions.

Commonly accepted practices puts predator loads at the wide end of turkey chokes. For the big 10 ga bore that's around .690 and in 12 ga it's about .670. These are middle of the road dimensions and are used by the most popular choke manufacturers such as HS, Truglo, Carlson's, and Trulock. But on the extremes Pattern Master is on one end with really wide chokes relying on slowing the wad rather than constriction and on the other end is Jebs with really tight chokes using who knows what sort of black magic and alien technology. All I've seen is what I posted above about alternating two forcing cones and two parallel sections and some porting.

I'll try to find videos. I've only really found one so far and it didn't show much.
 
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Rossignol

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So get this, I JUST got off the phone with a guy from Jebs.

Ok, not just, but it was about a half hour ago. I called Jebs on my lunch. No one was available at the time but a wonderfully pleasant lady took my name and number and said she'd have a tech call me back when he was able and that the owners have been busy with a couple different shows. I told her I could call back when I got off work at 4:30 and she said they're usually out of there around 4, so I told her not to worry about and I could call back tomorrow. She then said that the tech likely wouldn't mind calling even if after regular hours.

Well, come 7:30 almost 8, he called. Man what a nice guy to talk to. I've always loved the south and it's inhabitants. There's nothing else like southern hospitality. From Mississippi across Alabama, through Georgia to the Carolinas. The folks at Jebs are no exception, and going beyond what the job calls for to call me on a Thursday evening.

Anyhow, we talked about the choke tubes (duh) and this guy suggested something more appropriate or at least a constriction that more closely matched my expectation for the 4 buck, starting at .695 but held firm on the .650 for the #6 LongBeard. Which I'm still amazed by. No one else is choking the 835 that tight but no one else has a patent on their choke tube design either. Jebs really is the only one with a patent. For a choke tube.

So it's pricey. But the guy said they'd would do what a few others have done and said they'd swap tubes out until the customer is happy or a full refund. Whatever it takes.

I'm intrigued. But I'm also broke so that settles that for the time being. Lol
 
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