Mossberg Patriot .308 win inconsistency and design flow.

[Jack M Kucy]

Hello,

I got my Patriot in .308 win (walnut stock) on August 1, this year (2017). I have gone to the ranges 5 times, and have spent numerous hours at home 'dry firing' from the unsupported standing position.

A couple of very disappointing notes:
1. Since I am using a sling for the standing position stabilization, the gap between the barrel and a forearm opened up, from barely letting a paper slide through to allow a leather belt slide through. Every single change in stock-barrel relationship changes accuracy.
2. I needed to adjust the trigger (I like it light), so I removed the barreled action from the stock, and saw something really alarming - the front action screw threads in only 3 threads and rests on the barrel thread. Thus not allowing any measured attachment to the stock (25lb/inch recommended).
Have a look at the pictures - first two show the front action hole, showing the barrel thread inside - well scratched by the action bolt. There is a full contact, not a dynamic, measured connection.
I experimented with the length of the screw, to allow a proper tension, but since only 3 threads hold it, it's not a stable connection.

Every time I go to the range, the stock position changes and I have to re-sight the rifle again.

3. Every time after setting the scope right, the first 5-round group is OK., but the 5th group is already all over the place. Barrel gets hot, action gets warm, screws get warm - accuracy goes to hell.

I understand - this is an entry level discount rifle. It looks good, and feel nice, but the thing which is the most important in any rifle: 'consistency', is simply non existent.

My rifle, clean, and barely used (307 rounds shot) is on the market to be sold.

Thanks for listening.
Jack

 

[Don Fischer]

Call Mossberg. Probably they know what's going on. I have two wood stocked Patriot's and no problems at all. Not sure what that hole in the photo is but what's that junk around it?

 

[Jack M Kucy]

As I stated before - this hole is a front action screw hole. My engineering training tells me - it's not a good design. The hole is too shallow, and it shouldn't rest on a barrel thread.
To answer your question, the 'Junk around it' must be the 'locktide' - no other explanation.
I talked to Mossberg a couple of time. They only belittle my concerns. I think, I am done with it.
Thanks.

 

[Gene Wilkey]

I don't like the way the threads are tapped into shallow holes and abutting the barrel threads either. If you use Loctite blue when you tighten the stock bolts, they will remain tight until you loosen them. Compression of the wood would be the only thing that would change the tightness of that connection. I haven't seen that on mine. Also, the inletting of the stock on my rifle is very well done and provides and excellent interface between the action and the stock. The barrel, of course, is floated.

The barrel gap widening as much as you suggest is interesting, but unless the barrel is in contact with the stock, it isn't affecting the rifle's accuracy. The scope maintains a constant relationship with the barreled action unless the stock, or some other object is pushing on the barrel. It's a light sporter style barrel so it can be deflected if pushed on or overheated.

I have the same rifle. I cannot duplicate the issue of the stock to barrel gap increasing while using a sling for shooting while standing. I can however simply push on the side of the barrel out at the tip of the stock and make it deflect from side to side. The barrel will flex in this circumstance. The movement isn't caused by the receiver moving in the stock. This is perfectly normal for a light sporter barrel.

There is nothing unusual about a rifle barrel heating sufficiently to cause it to shoot all over the place after firing as many rounds as you stated. It has nothing to do with the value of the rifle. This is why varmint rifles have heavy bull barrels, but you wouldn't want to carry that heavy rifle all day through the woods just to fire one or two shots at a deer.

I would challenge anyone to feel of the barrel of any center fire sporter barreled rifle they own before firing it and again after firing just a three round group. The barrel will be significantly hotter at that point. Fire three to five, three round groups, one after the other and you may not be able to hold onto the barrel. If you are adjusting a scope, I would wait a minute or so between rounds and ten minutes between groups.

I believe the problem that you are experiencing with your rifle is that the barrel is over heating. Perfectly normal under the circumstances.

 

[Don Fischer]

Caution!! Don't use red lock tight on the action screws. Major chore to get them loose. Use blue lock tight.

 

[CaddmannQ]

Jack, as a retired engineer, I agree: this appears to be a crappy design.

Three threads is the absolute bare minimum for anything, even a stupid ornamental lamp, and certainly not enough for a gun or any machine that undergoes heavy vibrations.

Once you tighten that screw into the action, you've spoiled the threads on the barrel, so now when you unscrew the barrel it's going to gall and spoil the big threads in the action too.

If I were to keep this gun. I think I'd replace that screw with a dog Point screw and I would dap that Barrel right where the screw touches the threads so there are no threads where it touches, and the dog Point helps lock things in.

That's if you can get the Barrel off and on without screwing the action up.

I have sort of the same situation on a different gun. There's a part that screws onto the barrel and there just aren't enough threads. I'm going to have to drill into the barrel and make myself a custom bottoming tap so I can get another thread in.

 

[Gene Wilkey]

Caution!! Don't use red lock tight on the action screws. Major chore to get them loose. Use blue lock tight.

Yep, should have said Blue. Thanks for catching my error! Original post edited to say Loctite "blue" instead of "red."

 

[Don Fischer]

Jack, as a retired engineer, I agree: this appears to be a crappy design.

Three threads is the absolute bare minimum for anything, even a stupid ornamental lamp, and certainly not enough for a gun or any machine that undergoes heavy vibrations.

Once you tighten that screw into the action, you've spoiled the threads on the barrel, so now when you unscrew the barrel it's going to gall and spoil the big threads in the action too.

If I were to keep this gun. I think I'd replace that screw with a dog Point screw and I would dap that Barrel right where the screw touches the threads so there are no threads where it touches, and the dog Point helps lock things in.

That's if you can get the Barrel off and on without screwing the action up.

I have sort of the same situation on a different gun. There's a part that screws onto the barrel and there just aren't enough threads. I'm going to have to drill into the barrel and make myself a custom bottoming tap so I can get another thread in.

Time will tell won't it!

 

[agu8492]

Hello,

I got my Patriot in .308 win (walnut stock) on August 1, this year (2017). I have gone to the ranges 5 times, and have spent numerous hours at home 'dry firing' from the unsupported standing position.

A couple of very disappointing notes:
1. Since I am using a sling for the standing position stabilization, the gap between the barrel and a forearm opened up, from barely letting a paper slide through to allow a leather belt slide through. Every single change in stock-barrel relationship changes accuracy.
2. I needed to adjust the trigger (I like it light), so I removed the barreled action from the stock, and saw something really alarming - the front action screw threads in only 3 threads and rests on the barrel thread. Thus not allowing any measured attachment to the stock (25lb/inch recommended).
Have a look at the pictures - first two show the front action hole, showing the barrel thread inside - well scratched by the action bolt. There is a full contact, not a dynamic, measured connection.
I experimented with the length of the screw, to allow a proper tension, but since only 3 threads hold it, it's not a stable connection.

Every time I go to the range, the stock position changes and I have to re-sight the rifle again.

3. Every time after setting the scope right, the first 5-round group is OK., but the 5th group is already all over the place. Barrel gets hot, action gets warm, screws get warm - accuracy goes to hell.

I understand - this is an entry level discount rifle. It looks good, and feel nice, but the thing which is the most important in any rifle: 'consistency', is simply non existent.

My rifle, clean, and barely used (307 rounds shot) is on the market to be sold.

Thanks for listening.
Jack

Have you sold this rifle yet, or did you or Mossberg find a way to fix it?

 

[Jack M Kucy]

Have you sold this rifle yet, or did you or Mossberg find a way to fix it?

I had a long exchange with the Mossberg Customer Service, and they claim , that it is as it is designed. And it won't (shouldn't) cause any malfunctions.
In the meantime I bought a Ruger Precision Gen II, and basically I shoot only that rifle. My Patriot is in perfect shape and it's 'awaiting a new home'.

I have photographed it and it's at this address: http://www.jmk-gallery.com/u/mp308win/

I will keep the 'bipod rail' and the quick release swivel hooks (normal swivel studs are still there)

If you are interested you can contact me of list at jmk@jmk-gallery.com

Cheers, JMK

 

[Don Fischer]

Your saying you actually manged to bend a wood stock enough to actually pull it away from the barrel and stay there? I'm not buying that!

 

[Jack M Kucy]

Your saying you actually manged to bend a wood stock enough to actually pull it away from the barrel and stay there? I'm not buying that!

Sorry, I do not know what you are referring to. I stated, that the forehand part of the stock must have bent (when I use a sling support standing, with a considerable tension), and as a result the gap between the free floated barrel and the forehand widened (and it is just an observation, since it doesn't change the POA).

I took it apart first time to adjust the trigger, and the second time to actually shoot the holes, as on the images enclosed.
I am surprised by the decision of putting the first hole for the action screw in the place where the screw can't go through because it encounters the barrel tread. I prefer when the screws go through, making sure that the three works in its entirety. Normal physics apply.

The Mossberg service assured me that it is how it was designed (!), and it is going to work well. OK. Be it. But, as I stated in my previous (today) post, I moved on. I shoot a different rifle now. Happy camper.