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***NDAA ALERT*** This is no joke...

This kind of stuff just amazes me of the sheer nonsence that the government does. How does one go about changing it? It takes a major amount of people to get these morons out of office. How can they even come up with this rubbish? It just makes me lose faith in them. I can't wait to see who gets in the office next. We need to find a pro-firearms man/woman to be on our side. And one who doesn't lie and cheat on their spouse and back peddle and doesn't take bribs.....yadda yadda yadda....
 
RipJack, I pretty much agree to all that.

I'm in a situation where I'm lookin to see who is running against the encumbents (spelling?) in my area. They have an (R) behind their names... but it doesnt mean anything. I wont vote for any of them again if they dont move to repeal the new legislation.

Presidentially I feel the same way. I too have lost faith in them as you have. So far I there is something about each on of them I cant stand... or with little exception anyway.

This whole mess is another part of creeping incrementalism.
 
I'm of the mind that there's always gonna be an @$$hole in office, the degree of which is only a measure of their actions...
 
the fact that this bill was passed overwhelmingly makes me wonder what intelligence they have, or is it in response to the Occupy Wall Street people? One thing is for sure, that is if both liberals and conservative hate the NDAA it must be bad, because we rarely agree on much politically. Another thing that bothers me is legislation that could be used to turn off the internet under the guise of security. I feel that conversations like this one we are having could be effectively ended. Remember how comparatively slowly word was spread before the internet?

Sadly, when ~50% of the population does not vote, the news networks are more concerned with which celebrity has done what, than reporting about our freedoms being removed, and we have a population who would rather watch American Idol than think, then we lose that which was fought for by so many brave Americans.

I am afraid we as a nation have gone so far down this road that the best we can do is petition, write letters, and pray to God that our politicians will listen to the people for a change.

I am not one to indulge in conspiracy theories, but this is making me believe that there may very well be a nefarious motive behind the NDAA.

I doubt the NDAA will be used much, but the threat of its use will instill fear in people, people will become cautious about what they say and do; when that happens you have lost your right to free speech.

God Help Us,

GrumpyErik
 
Lazy, good point.

GrumpyErik, everything you said makes sense to me.

I dont like to entertain conspiracy either, its often total fantasy... this however has so many tenants of past govt. and the actions of. This to me is more like watching the history book come alive. We're talkin power grabs and consolidation of power to one branch with everyone else making sure theyre on the right side of it.

If i may entertain fantasy for a moment. The Ministry of Truth, there is much going on that is very much like it.
 
Well said grumpyerik! The Act opens the door for abuse and misuse without any recourse to the individual. So we all are at risk.....law abiding or not.
 
Rossignol said:
Lazy, good point.

GrumpyErik, everything you said makes sense to me.

I dont like to entertain conspiracy either, its often total fantasy... this however has so many tenants of past govt. and the actions of. This to me is more like watching the history book come alive. We're talkin power grabs and consolidation of power to one branch with everyone else making sure theyre on the right side of it.

If i may entertain fantasy for a moment. The Ministry of Truth, there is much going on that is very much like it.

I totally agree. You don't have to be a conspiricy theorist to see the potential for misuse and the groundwork that is being laid but via the courts, and each small piece of legislation passed. Each piece may seem innocuous but taken as a whole if you look at the trend over the last several years it's downright scary how much freedom and control we've surrendered.
 
Legislation like the NDAA makes it so the government does not have to amend a thing to the Constitution to still take away rights; through use of provisions of the NDAA or the fear of it being used against you, civil rights are lost. If someone is detained without access to a jury, judge, lawyer, trial, or even what the charges are, then all other rights are superfluous. What rights do you really have if you can be detained in this manner? The answer, no rights at all.

I feel if our population does not react with outrage, waving torches and pitchforks fast, then the republic as we knew it is lost. If the corporations/government were scared of the OWS movement this summer then they might be in for a rude awakening when the weather warms up. When it is spring/summer once again, it seems likely to me that more people might take to the streets than did this fall.

I have never understood why Americans generally won't protest like they do in places like France, Germany, or the UK. Comfortable politicians seem to be the leading cause of abusive governments.

God Save the Republic,

GrumpyErik
 
You are spot on Grumpyerik. Our gov is attempting, and suceeding at circumventing the very rules and laws that set us apart from every other country in the world.
 
I really don't think that the phrase "conspiracy theorist" should be used as loosely as it is in these types of topics. I think that's part of the reaso why people don't take these things seriously. They typically think that the person talking about these topics is usually blowing smoke and that the government would never harm the people.

It's this ignorance that has wounded out society in all aspects of life. People need to realize that we're a whole, not just individuals with individual needs. The "oh it doesn't affect me personally" mentality is most of the problem. They don't realize that it does in fact affect all of us. I always encourage people to read and do research on any topic like this and most responses are negative. In fact, I have been sending links to everyone I know. This week I had someone tell me "I'll be honest, I'm probably not going to look." That actually offends me. I told him that it's about the bill of rights and loss of rights and that's what I get. I almost told him to leave the country if he feels that way. I shouldn't get that worked up but come on, this is America and we have to stand up for what's right.

Back to the point. I've been reading a good amount on the topic lately so I think the word is spreading well. Hopefully something will happen.

P.S. I have a couple of pitch forks, let's do this!
 
You know, not to go on a rant but I think that Americans have lost the culture. I realize it's a complex topic but I CAN'T STAND IT when people shrug or don't care about these things. My family is in service and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you aren't willing to fight for your rights and do what needs to be done than gtfo, you don't deserve to live in our free country. Everything comes with a price and we have the greatest of them all.

To clarify, in no way is that a racist or negative statement.
 
Gentlemen. I appreciate all of you and your contributions to helping with all this.

I cant stand the arguments of other things right now with something like this legislation looming. Without our Constitution, there is nothing else to discuss. In the absence of our freedoms, we cant even begin to argue social conservatism or welfare or any other govt. agencies and their respective programs...

None of it will matter when the govt and state runs every aspect of our lives. Imagine state censorship of the news on television. We currently have alternative sources, talk radio and the internet. These will go the way of the dinosaur too however. There are already local govt's that have talked about shutting down the internet and cell signal during emergencies to prevent people from being able to organize any movement. No lie. California durning the Occupy protests.

Is anyone familiar with the Clash song "Clampdown"?
Its rather applicable given the politics of the day...

What are we gonna do now?
Taking off his turban, they said, is this man a Jew?
’Cos working for the clampdown
They put up a poster saying we earn more than you!
When we're working for the clampdown
We will teach our twisted speech
To the young believers
We will train our blue-eyed men
To be young believers

The judge said five to ten but I say double that again
I'm not working for the clampdown
No man born with a living soul
Can be working for the clampdown
Kick over the wall 'cause government's to fall
How can you refuse it?
Let fury have the hour, anger can be power
D'you know that you can use it?

The voices in your head are calling
Stop wasting your time, there's nothing coming
Only a fool would think someone could save you
The men at the factory are old and cunning
You don't owe nothing, so boy get runnin'
It's the best years of your life they want to steal

But, you grow up and you calm down and
You're working for the clampdown
You start wearing the blue and brown and
You're working for the clampdown
So you got someone to boss around
It makes you feel big now
You drift until you brutalize
You made your first kill now

In these days of evil presidentes
Working for the clampdown
But lately one or two has fully paid their due
For working for the clampdown
Ha! Gitalong! Gitalong!
Working for the clampdown
Ha! Gitalong! Gitalong!
Working for the clampdown

Yeah I’m working hard in Harrisburg
Working hard in Petersburg
Working for the clampdown
Working for the clampdown
Ha! Gitalong! Gitalong
Begging to be melted down
Gitalong, gitalong
Work
Work
And I give away no secrets – ha!
Work
More work
Work
Work

who's barmy now ?

Knowing Strummers intentions in writing this differ in todays context, but still rather appropriate given the political climate. There is reference to a few different things, including Nazi Germany.

The way we're goin, at best we end up with European socialism, worst case scenario, fascism. Socialism is working well throughout Europe isnt it? It hasnt been that long and its collapsing. The Euro, which parenthetically was designed to compete against the dollar, is failing. European countries have discussed going back to printing their own currency to prevent total economic collapse in the event of runs on the banks.

Knowing this, rhetorically, why in the world would a sucessful govt. persue this route? As has been pointed out, its our Constitution which seperates us from the rest of the world and has ensured our country's sucess thus far.
 
Chris111 said:
P.S. I have a couple of pitch forks, let's do this!

Are they tactical pitchforks? :lol: You know, painted black with folding stocks and bayonets with back up irons and green lasers? :D I'm kidding, I'm kidding! But seriously those would be sweet!

You mentioned something else I totally agree with. People who just dont care. People who dont know whats going on and dont care when you tell them. I guess its too much work to care, it means you have to do something outside of the 3 feet of personal space around you.

One guy at work lives in the city. I was telling him about the street car plans and taxes on the stadium and the city wanting to charge residents for all the improvements needed to put the street car in... which is dumb when they have busses already. I explained how much it would raise his taxes and told him the vote was coming up. He said he doesnt vote. Why the H&LL NOT! He just doesnt really care what happens.

Anyway, this scentiment is prevelant all over. Its a large reason this kind of stuff can happen. The majority of people dont care and want the status quo. As long as the check shows up on the 1st or 15th and the govt. is flippin the bill.

None of this is racially motivated either as it isnt a white black hispanic russian green polar bear gay straight dead whale discussion. Its an American discussion and people need to wake up.

There arent enough watchdogs and shepherds to go around. Nor are there enough of those fancy pitchforks.
 
I hear you. People have a lot of freedom that they take for granted. You don't appreciate what you for earn and for most Americans, that's the case. Sad really.

I was just clarifying so someone didn't take what I was saying out of context.

I have a role of duct tape. Strap some lights on these turds and we're gold.
 
Some vids.

The Young Turks are actually rather left leaning. Watch the 3 minute mark where Levin talks about the language removed, (which otherwise was not implicit) at the Administrations request excluding US citizens.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgLBRkjD24I[/youtube]

Glenn Beck talks about the legislation and plays the audio of Rand Paul, then covers what could be considered terrorism.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_5PQR01Ybc[/youtube]
 
Hell yes!

"LEARN FROM HOSTORY" I say this all the time. This is the scariest thing in my opinion.

I really thought it was interesting when he was talking about the veto. Only so HE can have supreme power and not congress. Just one of those little details.

I wish more people had the emotion on the subject as well. Just gets to me that so many are not concerned.
 
Yup, just the little things Chris. I totally believe its by design.
 
Chris111 said:
Hell yes!

"LEARN FROM HOSTORY" I say this all the time. This is the scariest thing in my opinion.

I really thought it was interesting when he was talking about the veto. Only so HE can have supreme power and not congress. Just one of those little details.

I wish more people had the emotion on the subject as well. Just gets to me that so many are not concerned.

No one will be concerned until their loved ones come up inexplicably missing or until doors start getting kicked in at 2 AM. This poem is all to close to where we are going.

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

Martin Niemoller

This is what I see happening in our land. No one will will worry until there is no one left to speak out.
Intellectuals warned the German people what would happen, then the intellectuals who did not escape were rounded up for being critical of the government and disappeared. Maybe they were considered "terrorists"?

It is good that at least some of us see how dangerous this legislation is; however, I fear we will end up like Germany. Right now it is 1932-33 as far as I am concerned; my hope it is that it does not reach 1944 here. I have considered moving while I still can. I think I will wait and see what happens with the elections. If those who supported this legislation are ousted then I might stay. The trouble is I don't know where to go. With the war with Iran brewing we could be looking at a large scale war the likes we have not seen in 70+ years there may well be few places to go to escape.
 
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