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NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56 .223

Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

I cant believe they tested 35 grain ammo! Very interesting stuff and very exciting! I'm most excited about the posibility as you mentioned Dan, of adding your own parts! Though I'm very much diggin the hunter with the tubular forend!

I have to know more!!!
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

I tried looking online but couldn't find an answer...when will these be available to the public to purchase? Any ideas?
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

Theyre on the website, so they may already be available to order?

It looks as if there is a traditional delta ring, and there is for sure an actual charging handle. Just would like to know if the receiver is as it looks; one piece.

Can a battery assist be added?
Can barrels be changed?
Can something like the Badger charging handle be installed?
Or a MOE LPK? (Magpul lower parts)

Just examples of questions I'm wonderin and I figure others will be askin eventually too.

One more thing, from a consumer standpoint, why should I buy this when there is a Colt AR at my LGS for the same price? Especially when the MMR is an AR "styled" platform but may not be a traditional AR in every regard. I get that it delivers accuracy and for the price is a complete package, but what I see is folks wanting to be able to customize, which the articles say is possible, but to what extent? Thats what I need answered!
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

If they're going to market the "tactical" configured rifles as such, they need to have all the bells and whistles that people look for in a "tactical" rifle (the word tactical is so overused that it almost makes me ill, especially when talking about a gun)

A 1:9 twist barrel will not typically stabilize the heavy match/target bullets that longer range shooters like, and not even mentioning what a lot of LEO use.

So by default, they have already lost out on a number of sales before its' even released because it doesn't have what it needs where it counts. 1:7 or no more than 1:8 twist barrel is what most of them look for.

And serious AR shooters do know the difference, so trying to tapdance around the subject isn't doing mossberg any favors.

It's apparent that they have not sat down and really researched this thoroughly enough or they would've already made the necessary spec changes.

And marketing it as a medium game rifle is laughable because 223 isn't legal to use to hunt medium game (deer) in most states.

So much for that marketing gimmick.

If they're going to market it as a medium game gun, they need to look into the 6.8 SPCII as an alternate chambering for those wanting a real medium game AR, or modern rifle, or whatever you want to call it.

And what is it chambered for? Is it .223 or is it 5.56? Reason I ask, is there really is a difference.

5.56 has looser chamber tolerances than .223, and shooting milsurp ammo in a .223 chambered gun can cause it to blow up in the shooters face.

And last but not least, there are many guys who hunt varmints in brush country where there shots are within or well within 150 yards.

The 20" barrel, along with adding weight, and bulk, is totally unnecessary in the above situation where a 16" model will kill them just as quick. For those looking for a lightweight hunting rifle, again by default, will exclude this as a consideration.

Not bashing and not trying to bust any bubbles, but there it is in a nutshell. A lot of people will not consider the mossberg AR because of the reasons I stated above. It is nothing more than just another mediocre AR out there.
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

My replies in red

Rossignol said:
I was just getting ready to start posting about these!!!

I'm very excited to learn more as info becomes available! Would love to be able to conduct an interview with a Mossberg rep and have some questions answered like why the forward assist is removed on an AR platform. Does have the ability to accept a battery assist?

No forward assist on this unit. and no way to do it after the fact, short of replacing the upper reciever

DPMS offers some models (called the sportical) without the forward assist and shell deflector. They're made from extruded machining process.

I suspect this is likely of the same type.

Just for the record, a forward assist became a very important feature to me last year when I missed that cull spike deer because my bolt wasn't all the way closed (slightly out of battery).

Anyone saying that a forward assist isn't important on a hunting rifle, hasn't hunted enough


It looks like a one piece receiver so interchangability is limited, which may or may not be an issue.

Not sure what you mean, but the upper and lower should be seperate pieces. It would be pretty hard to install the trigger and hammer and bolt and things if it wasn't.

I see this being a higher end option to the Tac 22 with more "solid state" hardware and will be attractive as such,

I would hope so. I have seen airsoft guns that look more like an AR than it does.

Plus, anyone with a .223/5.56 upper can buy a 22LR conversion kit for less than $200 and often less than $150 and just swap the bolt and magazine between rimfire and centerfire.


a rather viable option for beginner competitors, and may even be solid and accurate enough to go beyond... dont know yet and at the risk of being repetitive, I'm really looking forward to learning more!!!

The specs are not impressing me. And anyone looking into these needs to spend some time researching.

Especially with the asking price I have seen being quoted, are not in the beginner price range. Heck, I've seen Colt 6920's being listed at or very near those prices and those are supposed to be "top shelf" and NUMEROUS other manufacturers wanting hundreds less for an AR with comparable specs.

Sorry, but the mossberg AR is not going to do well, with as many "other choices" that are out there at lower prices.

I'm sure some people would buy them at this price, or any price. Mostly beginners who do not know what to look for in an AR.

Just my 2 cents
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

John I appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions so thoroughly, Thanks!

I agree totally on the price, and in the other thread mentioned the Colt for about the same price. It does seem a steep price for a beginner or entry level AR, especially lacking some of the features of a traditional AR.

I get what youre sayin about the receiver having to be a seperate upper and lower for the parts to be installed, I just couldnt discern that from the pics I have seen thus far, and after the introduction of the Tac 22 with plastic wrapped around a 702 plinkster, I didnt know what to expect.

I know we here on MO have voiced we would love to see an AR from OF Mossberg, but I'm not sure this is what we had in mind. The MMR is ARish, but not quite an AR. I know its not called an AR, but rather the "Mossberg Modern Rifle", but because of the design and I'm sure it isnt accident the way it looks, folks arent goin to differentiate between an AR and the MMR.

Problem I see, especially given the price, the MMR lacks the total and complete parts interchangability folks want in an AR.
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

Hard to tell from the write-up as to whether or not everything is 'Mil-Spec' or not.

Everything 'looks' like it should, but more technical specs on them would be nice.

From what I read, both are chambered in 5.56, so 5.56 or .223 ammunition is fine. It would have been nice if they had offered at least one of them in a faster twist rate, 1:8 or 1:7. But 1:9 will do fine for most folks needs. I shoot up to 69gr out of a few of mine in 1:9 twist, from 16" and 20" barrels. You'll see a little more stability out of the longer barrel. But with anything heavier, a faster twist rate would be better.

It's surprising that they were testing these with 35gr ammo?? :? I have one that is set up for varmint, in a 24" bull barrel with 1:12 twist. That does a great job with the 35-45gr ammunition. But if they were getting decent results with the 35gr from 1:9, hat's off to them.

As for compatibility with after-market AR goodies, I don't see why they wouldn't be. Then again, we'll have to wait and see what the technical specs are on the upper and lower receivers. I'm sure there will be the 'tacticool' crowd out there, or the avid fans of some of the 'AR' forums who will pooh-pooh these because they aren't made by BCM or [insert latest AR-fan boy manufacturer name here].

But from the write ups, these aren't aimed at that market. Sure, there are things that you can add to any AR that will increase it's reliability. And I'm sure you can pay whatever for whatever brands, because someone said they don't break down as fast as others - when you ABUSE them with several thousands of rounds in the matter or 1-2 days, in a carbine class. How many out there regularly attend such classes or puts anywhere close to that many rounds through their AR in that amount of time? In short - you can abuse any model out there to the point where you will increase the probability of some part failing. But most of the shooters I know who buy one DON'T do that. Yet you always hear somone in the audience state that "for a little more $$, you could have bought one of these - and they are better than those" :roll:

I have DPMS's with over 10K rounds through them. Also have a couple Bushy's with that many down the pipe. Only one have I changed the barrel on. And I have ran the SNOT out of them, and have yet to have a BCG fail, or any other parts crap out. I also have RRA, Stag, Noveske, LMT, Larue, and several 'garage-guns' that I have assembled from parts. Out of all of them, I have had one failure - and that was on a BCG assembly from a REPUTABLE name brand. One that is often RECOMMENDED :lol:
But that's hardly scientific proof, and not preaching it to be.

Just saying that these new models from Mossy don't have "LEO or Military or Super-OPERATOR Only" stamped on them, that I saw. I think these are marketed for the everyday JOE out there who wants an AR for plinking, target popping, varmint, etc. And for that purpose, these should do fine. If they are standard sized receivers, and I can't see why they would not be, then all the after-market goodies will fit and function - or should. We'll have to wait and see.

Suggested prices aren't out of line with any other brands. I'm sure street price will be lower. So I see these as in the same ball park with DPMS, Bushmaster, Remington, even some of the Rock River, Stag, Smith & Wesson models. No, I don't think they are meant to be thought of in the same light as LMT, COLT, BCM, NOVESKE, LARUE, KNIGHT, etc. nor are they priced or packaged that way.

I say kudos to Mossy for jumping in the game. And like Dan said, if they can package one that is compliant with those states out there that require certain mods - then hey, more power to Mossy for having the smarts to realize that those markets are there, too.

Now...who in here will be the first to try one on for size? ;)
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

not trying to start flame wars, but if one keeps his/her AR (or any other tool) maintained, lubed, and in working order, the forward assist isn't a 'necessary' feature.

If you pull back on your charging handle and release it (without babying it - like you are supposed to), rounds should load with no problems. Of course this is assuming that the gun is in working condition, has been maintained, cleaned and lubed, there are no obstructions in the chamber, and you are using non-defective ammo. Not saying that the odd circumstance cannot or will not happen - Murphy's Law.

I do have a DPMS in .308 with no forward assist. I haven't missed it. ;)

Sorry about missing out on your deer. But I don't know that I would let the lack of a forward assist feature be a decision-maker on this AR,...yet.

Maybe there will be other things about it that will make it a viable choice for a few out there. I don't think mfg suggested retail will be the in-store price, either ;) At least let's hope not.

I don't mind seeing newcomers getting into the AR arena. I laugh when the 'die-hard' afficianados get all shook up about it.

I mean, let's get real. Even though they have slapped the 'tactical' moniker on this model - I highly doubt they intended it to see any time in the 'Sand Box', front line, or in the line of duty. Maybe for those who have to hold onto something while playing 'Call of Duty'.

But for the average guy, these look like they will work just fine. Now, if they can figure out a way to merchandise them or change their prices to make them more attractive :cool:
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

And also not participating in a flame war, but I well know how to build and maintain AR's. Been doing it for a large number of years, owned my own gun shop for 9 years, and gunsmith shop for probably 7 or 8 years, and have been a staff member/moderator on 2 different AR forums.

I was also recently contacted by Mark Olis (managing editor) to submit an article to http://www.argunsandhunting.com/ magazine about hunting with suppressors.

So yes, I do feel that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to AR's.

And more importantly, being involved in direct sales of AR15's from every rollmark out there over the years, I have kept up with what the buyer wants. And the vast majority of buyers will go for the one that has the better specs and materials.

The folks who will even look at a nuetered model are 1. College students 2. Younger men just starting a family on a tight budget. And even then, they'll notice if one has less "things" than the other. Especially if the price tag is hundreds less.

The older, more mature and financially stable will typically know exactly the model they want before ever stepping inside. And to say that folks won't compare the features and price to any other AR available is naive at best.

As for 100% reliable function, sometimes stuff just happens. No particular rhyme or reason to it. I think that's why they call it hunting. But I cannot think of a single REAL reason to omit standard and readily available features from a product.

That would be like omitting signal lights on cars. Or leaving the ink out of the pens when they're being made and trying to sell them that way. Granted I know those examples may be a little extreme, the point is still valid.

Aside from saving $10 for the forward assist assembly, and whatever they're saving in machine time from drilling 2 holes in a receiver (one for the forward assist assembly and another for the roll pin that captures it in place) what are they saving by leaving it off? What would they gain by adding it?

Are they even machining these at all, or contracting and subcontracting all the parts and assemblies from company AB and C to get all the parts and then just putting it together? If it's the latter, just about anybody could put one together. That's why so many people do.

And just for the record, the failure to lock the bolt in that case when I was hunting last year was the old 10 round ban compliant bushmaster magazine. Turns out the right feed lip was dragging on the bottom of the bolt just enough to cause the problem. Had nothing to do with a properly assembled gun, or lack of maintenance.

But had I bumped the forward assist, wouldn't have happened. I suppose Murphy can show up anytime, anywhere.

I have no one to blame but myself, but who do you think people are going to blame on a gun that doesn't have one?
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

I've been shooting AR's and their full-auto brothers for nearly 30 years now. My understanding is that the forward assist was implemented on the M16 and its siblings for two reasons:

1. Operating the weapon in very dirty conditions, where frequent cleaning and maintenance were not a possibility, sometimes caused the bolt carrier to fail to go fully into battery. The forward assist, allowed the weapon's operator to slam the bolt home in these conditions.

2. Occasionally, in clandestine operations it was desirable to "ride the charging handle" to keep the bolt carrier from making noise while slamming home from a released charging handle. The forward assist allowed the weapon operator to ensure that the bolt was locked.

Can one successfully operate an AR-style rifle without a forward assist? Sure. However, I would recommend reviewing the two reasons for the forward assist before purchasing such a rifle. If you intend to defend your life in less-than-optimal conditions, or in conditions that require extreme quiet, the forward assist will be missed.

I would expect an AR-style rifle without a forward assist to be priced more cheaply than one that has a forward assist.

From looking at photos, the MMR does seem to be the same modular design as other AR's. This would allow the owner to interchange other AR parts (presumably).

Price-wise, you can buy proven AR's from companies that have been producing them for years for less than $900.
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

Mudinyeri said:
I've been shooting AR's and their full-auto brothers for nearly 30 years now. My understanding is that the forward assist was implemented on the M16 and its siblings for two reasons:

1. Operating the weapon in very dirty conditions, where frequent cleaning and maintenance were not a possibility, sometimes caused the bolt carrier to fail to go fully into battery. The forward assist, allowed the weapon's operator to slam the bolt home in these conditions.

2. Occasionally, in clandestine operations it was desirable to "ride the charging handle" to keep the bolt carrier from making noise while slamming home from a released charging handle. The forward assist allowed the weapon operator to ensure that the bolt was locked.

Can one successfully operate an AR-style rifle without a forward assist? Sure. However, I would recommend reviewing the two reasons for the forward assist before purchasing such a rifle. If you intend to defend your life in less-than-optimal conditions, or in conditions that require extreme quiet, the forward assist will be missed.

I would expect an AR-style rifle without a forward assist to be priced more cheaply than one that has a forward assist.

From looking at photos, the MMR does seem to be the same modular design as other AR's. This would allow the owner to interchange other AR parts (presumably).

Price-wise, you can buy proven AR's from companies that have been producing them for years for less than $900.[

/quote]

This is pretty much what my husband said. He said I could get a Bushmaster for the price of this and it would be more trusted. He already has an AR so I shoot his when I want. I guess I'll wait it out and do some research and wait for reviews. None the less, all the replies in this thread had some good arguments and info.
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

Congrats on the writing opportunity, and on your past experience.

While I have never worked in a gun shop formally, I have made many sales for my local shop, just by happening to be there when someone was 'looking'. True, there are many out there who 'know' what they are looking for when they go into a shop or to a gun show. But I would be willing to bet, there are probably more who only know what they have read in a magazine, online, or in a forum. ;)

I'm not saying that is a bad thing, as any information they can acquire and use to help them make a decision or to learn more about the platform may help them down the line in choosing a make, model, that is right for them. What I don't care for, is when folks develop the 'holier than thou' attitudes and start preaching about how certain brands are better than others, only to find out that they are basing their sermon on what someone else said, without trying or comparing the brands in question. Not saying that is what you are doing, or anyone else in the forum.

I have been around the AR platform since the late 70's. I carried one for Uncle Sam for 8 years all over central America, and other 'great vacation places'. I served as the 'unofficial gunsmith' for our group, only because I had a knack for keeping my piece ticking when others would fail. I have personally assembled over 150 AR's for myself and to help friends, over the years, and can usually successfully troubleshoot most malfunctions and get the piece running again with little or no trouble.

I'm sure you are aware that when the AR first came out, it had no forward assist. That feature was added when our GI's started running into feeding issues in 'Nam. Most of the problems were causes by dirty or fouled chambers, bad magazines, creatures or foreign debris in the action or chamber or all over the rounds, and for rounds that were notoriously loaded with the wrong powder. So the forward assist was added to help them 'force' the round into battery. In a combat/LEO situation or where your life is on the line, that may be a last resort to keep you in the fight. But ... I have also witnesses incidents where someone has tried to force a round in, only to jam up the gun and put them out of the fight. Or, they end up forcing the round in, getting it jammed up so that it won't extract! There are times when the previous round may have had a lighter load - a low-powder round. IF so the next round will most likely not fully load and seat into the chamber. THIS is what the forward assist was actually designed for, for that type of occurrence. Again, it all depends on the situation.

Personally, I would probably drop the mag, rack the action, and clear any debris. Then check that particular mag and the round, also the chamber to see what the problem is. But in an urgent situation, you may not have the time. That is why you keep your gun inspected, clean and lubed, inspect your magazines and EVERY round that you load - if you think you are going to be using that particular gun in 'harm's way'.

Now, for the average guy who will most likely never be using one of these in that scenario - is the forward assist really necessary? In my honest opinion - no. But, it is an inexpensive feature, does not add much weight. It's main advantage that I have found is, that you can chamber a round 'quietly' in a hunting scenario. That being said, there are several models out there that still do not employ a forward assist, even on models that can and are used for hunting. Sure they are cheaper to manufacture that way. And they do make the action simpler, and hopefully more reliable.

While they are meant to serve a purpose, are they really necessary? No, not really. They do have advantages, like in a hunting scenario - to quietly load a round. They can help in a situation where the previous round was low-powder. This is assuming that the round being fed has no obstructions, malfunctions or deformities, and the chamber is free and clear of debris that might be causing the mis-feed. Using the forward-assist to force the round in, will most likely cause just that - a JAMMED weapon.

So, again, it all comes down to the buyer finding something that he/she likes, features that they want, and a price they are comfortable with. There will always be the Chevy-vs-Ford debates on which models and brands are better - and here's why, but for the most part - the average user/buyer will never have to use one of these for anything more than what they were designed for - regardless if the manufacturer puts the 'Tactical' stamp on it or not. I really don't think Mossberg is offering these as 'ready for a CARBINE Class torture test' or to go to the nearest Sand Box.

No, they don't have a forward assist. And I'm sure they probably don't have a FA or match BCG assembly, or a heavy buffer, or a match trigger, or .....etc, etc, etc. I didn't see mention of Mil-Spec, HPT, or MPI parts anywhere. But in all reality, do they need to? IF that is what the buyer wants or needs, then keep looking.

What it comes down to is, no, these do not have some of the features that other brands may/may not offer. Price wise, we still don't know what street/store price will be. So it's really hard to make a case either way. Sure there are some 'top shelf' (whatever that really means) brands out there that might be available at similar price points, but again, we still don't know what the price on these will be. And if they are priced the same as those other brands, well then the buyer has more options.

But with or without a forward assist on these, I would not let that be the deciding factor on whether or not I would buy/own one.

It all comes down to individual wants and needs, and what they are willing to pay for, and sometimes you do get what you pay for, sometimes more - sometimes less. That's where research on the models and features is helpful. As well as figuring out what it is you really need or will be using the tool for, and knowing how to use it. For someone NEW to AR's, or even to someone with some experience with them, I really don't see anything wrong with these - from what the write ups have to offer. Of course, that is without handling one. I'll save my final opinion until then ;)
 
Re: MMR Mossberg Modern Rifle

Lots of good points on all accounts, and I'm not in a position to argue how legit the forward assist is, and for some reason, the forward assist has become the spokesman if you will for the things the MMR lacks.

For me, the bigger picture is price vs. ammenities. The MSRP of the MMR rifles is comprable to major makers out there with STANDARD AR features. So far, it seems the MMR is marketed as an AR platform. Personally, I would like an AR, and I like the look of the MMR, but the price is hard to stomach when there is a Colt down the road for the same price.

For $800 to $1000 I want a complete package, ready to go AR with all the AR stuuf and it doesnt have to be top of the line, it just has to have all the AR stuff...

Admittedly I am an AR nOOb however...
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

I think you'll find that when these actually do hit retail, the sticker price will end up being significanty less than the listed MSRP. I would imagine the Tactical models will be priced comparably the the S&W M&P Sport at $525-$700. As for the MMR Hunter they'll likely be priced a few hundred under the Bushmaster Varminter series rifles and the Remington R-15, I would figure in the $800-$900 ballpark.

Just my guess...
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

LAZY EYED SNIPER said:
I think you'll find that when these actually do hit retail, the sticker price will end up being significanty less than the listed MSRP. I would imagine the Tactical models will be priced comparably the the S&W M&P Sport at $525-$700. As for the MMR Hunter they'll likely be priced a few hundred under the Bushmaster Varminter series rifles and the Remington R-15, I would figure in the $800-$900 ballpark.

Just my guess...

Lazy,

That is my guess, too. I can't see them jumping into this market at the suggested retail price.

But around the price points you mentioned, I think they could make it happen. But it is a very competitive market, one that has some players with a lot of experience, background, and backing from 'experts' from all over the gun arena. I half expect that it's only a matter of time before you see these spokesmen and spokeswomen on TV, all decked out in their NASCAR styled jump suits (in designer camo patterns of course), and pimping the latest and greatest from each of the brands :lol:

Oh well, makes life interesting.

And I guess I should clarify the points I was trying to make...what I was trying to say is...let's not crucify Mossberg or these models until we have reason to.

No, they aren't the atypical AR, and don't include all of the standard features. And even though most of my AR's do include a forward assist, I do have a few without. All I was trying to say is, different strokes for different folks. It should not be taken as a deciding factor - unless you were looking for an AR that has one.

And yes, you can find several reputable brands out there for under the SUGGESTED MANUFACTURER's RETAIL PRICE ;) I know I can assemble one from part for a lot less than any of these, too. But if these appeal to someone, far be it for me to dissuade that person from buying one. UNLESS I was sure that these are not worth the money. But I haven't seen or handled one yet, and don't know anyone who has. So I won't pass judgement on them, with or without certain features :lol:

As long as they don't come out with CAST parts :x
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

What Mossberg does have going for them is name recognition.
This can be key when attracting a novice shooter to your brand for their first AR buy. It's safe to say (in a very broad sense) that the general public is not aware of Noveske, LaRue, Mega Arms, Spikes, DPMS, the list goes on and on. However, it's likely that if you pick ten random people off the street at least half would be aware that Mossberg is a firearms manufacturer. Those that already have experience with Mossberg's current shotguns and rifles know the brand for making quality products at affordable prices. Those beginning to research their first AR purchase will be a lot more enticed by a brand that they recognize vs. one they've never heard of. A lot of these individuals will likely not know a forward assist from a hole in the ground. I think we've all spent enough time overhearing conversations and sales pitches in gun stores to realize how little some folks really know about firearms and how often people commit to a purchase without researching before hand.

There is another consumer base that is very brand loyal. I'm sure the Remington R-15 is a lot more appealing to an individual looking into their first AR if they grew up hunting with a 700. Likewise, there are plenty of Mossberg owners that may feel like the MMR Hunter or Tactical would be a safe place to start. The vast array of options from the wide variety of manufacturers out there can be quite intimidating for a novice, so one's comfort level with a particular manufacturer can have a tremendous effect on their purchase. Brand marketing is key as well. It'll be interesting to see how Mossberg steps up to the plate in advertising these models.

All that said, if they can attract novice shooters, offer competitive prices (well under listed MSRP), and build an AR that's on par with the quality of their bolt action rifles, my feeling is that these Mossy ARs will do just fine as an entry level AR.

Again, just my observation...
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

mister_e, I didn't see anyone trying to "crucify" Mossberg. However, Mossberg has made what I would consider some fairly questionable product decisions over recent months. Exhibit 1, for your consideration, would have to be the Chainsaw shotgun. I think several of us feel that the MMR may turn into Exhibit 2.

The AR market is flooded with competitors. Mossberg does have some name recognition, primarily as a manufacturer of "budget" shotguns. I'm not sure if that translates to AR-style rifles. There are a number of well-recognized brands already producing AR-style rifles and Mossberg will have to fight its way into the fray. Given what I have seen and heard about the MMR, I'm struggling to see how Mossberg is going to find a place in the AR market. They've produced a weapon with less functionality than their name-brand competitors but at a similar price point.

Add to that the fact that Mossberg's quality has taken a number of hits (deserved or not) over the past decade and I have to question the wisdom of their entry into this market.

If I was running Mossberg, I might have spent the time and effort on improving the quality of my core product set before I would have launched a new product set.
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

Don't get me wrong,

I don't foresee the MMR models winning Mossberg any best selling new product line awards. However, I do think they'll be able to carve out a small niche in the market. I'm just interested to follow the progress once they begin to hit stores.

What I find really interesting is that this topic is only a day old and is already approaching 1200 views. I'd say it's mission accomplished for the release of information so far. Looks like they've definitely got our attention.
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

I have heard some negativity on several mossberg products. And I admit I have not been impressed at all with the model named tactical turkey because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but there are many others that make comments about the chainsaw and "weed whacker" grip as well.

I'm not crucifying mossbergs version of the AR and don't think anyone else is here either, but I do feel they seemingly did not do enough research into what their competitors were offering, and apparently didn't spend an overwhelming amount of time researching what users thought on internet forums because they are the primary market for these. If they had've, I think the MMR may've turned out just a little different than what I have seen so far.

True, maybe certain features or specs are not necessary on a hunting gun and I'll give them that, but the AR market is what it is.

One thing I am glad of though, another manufacturer making their (AR) version of hunting rifles. I know the Constitution doesn't mention hunting and sporting, but I am hopeful that seeing more of these in the field will get rid of some of the stigma that are associated with them because AR's are great hunting guns. There are probably more than a dozen companies that has a dedicated (AR) hunting product line and in calibers from .17 and 204 up to the 50 Beowulf.

Olympic Arms, Remington, DPMS, Dedicated Technology, Smith and Wesson, Bushmaster, now Mossberg, Alexander Arms, Bison, ARP, Wilson Combat, just to name 11 off the top of my head.
 
Re: NEW Mossberg MMR Modern Rifle Hunter Tactical AR15 5.56

Mudinyeri said:
mister_e, I didn't see anyone trying to "crucify" Mossberg. However, Mossberg has made what I would consider some fairly questionable product decisions over recent months. Exhibit 1, for your consideration, would have to be the Chainsaw shotgun. I think several of us feel that the MMR may turn into Exhibit 2.

The AR market is flooded with competitors. Mossberg does have some name recognition, primarily as a manufacturer of "budget" shotguns. I'm not sure if that translates to AR-style rifles. There are a number of well-recognized brands already producing AR-style rifles and Mossberg will have to fight its way into the fray. Given what I have seen and heard about the MMR, I'm struggling to see how Mossberg is going to find a place in the AR market. They've produced a weapon with less functionality than their name-brand competitors but at a similar price point.

Add to that the fact that Mossberg's quality has taken a number of hits (deserved or not) over the past decade and I have to question the wisdom of their entry into this market.

If I was running Mossberg, I might have spent the time and effort on improving the quality of my core product set before I would have launched a new product set.

Okay, I apologize for obviously the wrong choice of words on my part.

And I admit, Mossberg has put out some questionable models lately - and I totally agree about the 'Chainsaw' - in fact I poked fun at that one.

All I was trying to say is - take this new model for what it is, not for what we think it should or should not be. I'm pretty sure that they did not intend to market these models as serious competition to the established 'status quo' of the AR market. That would be ridiculous on their part.

I see these as 'entry level' AR's, as you pointed out, in the same vein as what Mossberg produces in their shotgun line. They are 'inexpensive' alternatives, for the masses.

I highly doubt that these will enter the market at the MSRP - that would be a big mistake on Mossberg's part. And I am well aware of what AR's are selling for out there, especially established brands. For the MSRP of these new Mossbergs, one can easily find a 'better' deal with a reputable name brand - OR - even build one from parts (that you select) and build a 'better mousetrap'.

Personally, I will wait to see what these models are all about before I pass judgment. No, they don't have all the 'standard' features, from what I can tell. Whether or not that should affect price points, all depends on what the trade-offs are, if any - and what the buyer is looking for. Not everyone out there needs an M4, or a completely Mil-Spec'ed model. Yes, you can buy one for about the same price. And the argument would be, if you can get one for equal money, then why not get Mil-Spec? Not arguing that either. And I'm sure there will be many 'dedicated' fans from some of the forums who will knock these for those reasons, or because they aren't what the 'masses' say you should have.

I don't care if my 26" Kreiger barreled match gun, with Young Mfg. BCG, Geissele match trigger, built on a Mega billet matched upper and lower receiver, with a CMT lpk, Magpul PRS furniture, and Schmidt glass is Mil-Spec or not. Nor do I care if the guys on M4, Arfcom, or any other forum like it or not. I've always bought my tools for what I need them to do, and if I can't buy one that I need, then I'll make it. I didn't go to any forum to ask for info or for acceptance on what I should or should not own, or what I 'need' according to some chart, or someone else's opinion.

DPMS has marketed quite a few similar models, and last time I looked, their lights were still on. No, they aren't recognized by some of the hard-core AR afficianados, in fact, most forums will bag on them any chance they get. Yet, DPMS is still going. Of course it doesn't hurt that they are owned by the same co. that also owns Bushmaster and Remington. And even those two market AR's, and are doing well - even though they too get their share of 'comments' by the AR crowds. Maybe there is something to some of the reports, but I have owned several models from DPMS, Bushmaster, and even Remington, and still have five, most with over 7500 rds, and some over 10k, and are going strong. But none of them were really marketed to go head to head with a Colt, LMT, etc., even though a few of them have - in carbine classes - and held their own ;)

The point is, sure Mossberg could have put out a COLT clone, or copy of any other brand. But they could not have put one out for the same price - at least not yet. Give them time to see how they do in the AR arena with sales and product reviews. It's going to take some time and teething pains, for them to figure out what works for them and what doesn't, and to figure out what niche in the market they might cater to.

I apologize for ruffling any feathers, or rubbing anyone the wrong way. That was not my intent. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I was just trying to keep it fair, for Mossberg's sake. ;)
 
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