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"Shot Placement"

Tom396

.30-06
I agree. If somebody gets shot in the eye socket, with a .22LR, they are gonna stop attacking. However, I don't think for one minute, I am gonna be able to put that shot in my attacker's eye socket.

Heck, I think I'd be lucky to put a shot on my attacker's thigh. I'm gonna be pumped up on adrenalin. I'm gonna be practically ****ing my pants. And my attacker is probably not going to cooperate by presenting a stationary broadside profile...just like my paper targets.

That said, I don't think a handgun is the way to go, for me, in home defense. Not much that comes out of the end of a handgun barrel, is going to stop a determined and mindless attacker, unless it is properly placed. However, even a well off center hit, with 12 gauge buckshot, is likely to end the threat.

Just my opinion on "shot placement". Take care. Tom Worthington
 
There are a lot of well documented reports of offenders requiring several rounds in the vitals to stop. Regardless of what you use, it is rare that a bad guy is going to stop at the first shot.

Buckshot or slugs are considerably larger (or more projectiles), and increase your chances of surviving a deadly encounter, pending shot placement and timing...

Peace through superior firepower.
 
I've been training exclusively with the handgun for the better part of 2013.

I've gotten very proficient with it and feel comfortable with my 9mm. Hollow points do interesting things once expanded.

I'm at the point it's what's in my hands is gonna be what I use and use well.
 
Water Monkey said:
I've been training exclusively with the handgun for the better part of 2013.

Training will definitely help if it ever is needed. It does not mean it will always work out right, but it will help.

I like the old story where someone asks, why are you carrying a handgun? The answer is, because I'm not expecting trouble.

A handgun might be all you have at the time. Even a .22 is better than nothing.
 
That’s ok Tom, because the important part is you recognize what is going to work best for you. I actually have a pistol with a light on my nightstand these days. In my house I feel real good that I can be successful with my CZ and the wife can grab and use it as well, long gun puts her behind the curve and since the CZ does not miss it’s my front line choice for decent power using proper SD rounds , high capacity for just in case I miss a bunch but the only way I see that happening is if I am being shot at and if that’s the case I am bailing back as fast as I can to the AR or shotgun…..always surprising what can happen under high stress though, I am not delusional
 
daytime dave said:
Water Monkey said:
I've been training exclusively with the handgun for the better part of 2013.

Training will definitely help if it ever is needed. It does not mean it will always work out right, but it will help.

I like the old story where someone asks, why are you carrying a handgun? The answer is, because I'm not expecting trouble.

A handgun might be all you have at the time. Even a .22 is better than nothing.

There's no disputing the ballistics of a long gun vs a handgun.

But with data from CDC over the years what's the majority of gun related homicide deaths due to? Handguns.

It's easier to conceal, I can walk around my house with it on my hip, easier to clear hallways, faster to reload, easier to manipulate one handed if I'm protecting my family.

I have no illusions that a handgun is noted as a backup weapon to the long gun. But in CBQ circumstances and home protection when the assailant is less than 3 feet from you on a surprise…. it's much easier to manipulate a handgun.

And I don't mean training as in going to the range…. that's practice. I mean hitting 8 hour professional courses in various areas from low light, retention, shooting on the move, around barriers, on the ground, etc.

By the end of April 2014 I will have had 32 hours of professional training - 24 hrs handgun, 8 hrs shotgun in less than 12 months.
 
Just a question here. Those of you using a handgun as your go-to firearm in home defense, where do you hope your first shot hits the attacker? Is it center mass, or something more specific? Seems like trying to take a head shot or even high in the chest cavity shot would be counter productive in a high stress situation (as in more likely to end up being a clean miss).

And just to be clear, I absolutely agree about the training aspect. It's one big reason my wife has a handgun as her go-to home defense firearm. She is very recoil sensitive. I can't even get her to shoot the 20 gauge 500 with a recoil reducing stock. :roll: Or, at least, not enough for her to build up some muscle memory.

For myself, I'm thinking that even if I only hit him in the shoulder (with 12 gauge buckshot), he's gonna have to hurt me using only one arm. If I get him in the thigh, he's gonna have to crawl with one leg. Can the same be said of a handgun round? Take care. Tom Worthington
 
For one thing you can miss with a shotgun. I've patterned 00 Buck and it spreads about the size of a fist out to 15 feet.

I aim center mass the first few shots.

I'm sure once you start slinging lead the person has just realized he's done effed up.

Most people shot usually stop fighting.

You can play the what if game all day. It comes down to what's in your hand at the time and can you work it like a boss when it's crunch time.

And I pray it's never crunch time. Having to take a human life is NOT one of the things I want to be doing.
 
I'm always thinking worst case scenario. I'm not "planning" on encountering the attacker who will stop, simply because he's been hit somewhere, by a bullet. I'm planning on facing the attacker who will only stop because it is physically impossible for him to continue. I'm definitely not planning on him stopping because he can see it's logical and/or in his best interest to stop, or even that he's already a dead man...but just doesn't know it yet.

This is my own reason for selecting a 12 gauge in home defense. I don't trust that I can make that well placed handgun shot, in the heat of the moment. I don't trust that my own less than perfect handgun shot will stop that worst case scenario attacker. I do think my less than perfect 12 gauge hit will stop that worst case scenario attacker. I also acknowledge that I can use more real scenario training with the shotgun. I'm just not convinced that any amount of training will get me to the point that I can definitively stop that worst case scenario attacker, with only a handgun.

These responses have been highly enlightening and valuable to me. I greatly appreciate them and hope they continue. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Ok worst case scenario... Have you ever planned on NOT being able to get to your shotgun in time?

I'm assuming it's not slung around your shoulder 24/7 while at home.

What do you do then? No handgun on your hip... Do you carry a blade? Are you trained on basic knife fighting?

Unarmed... Are you trained and proficient enough for hand to hand? How about unarmed vs knife/firearm.

Shotgun... Ok

Have you trained reloading under stressful situations? Jam clearing when you short stroke? Barrier shooting? How to fire around barriers without exposing too much? Low light fighting and identification? Moving and shooting with a shotgun? Keeping that shotgun fed with that heavy ammo? One hand manipulations? Loading one handed? Tell me how long you can keep that shotgun shouldered with one hand. Can you make the transition to an empty shotgun and turn it into a hot steel club? Would you know the key areas to strike with your shotgun and transition to other techniques if your gun is empty from missing?

Mind blown yet? Feel inadequate? You should. Home invaders usually can get in within seconds and it takes seconds for your mind to process the situation, determine the correct course of action, and then implement said action in the physical world. You are always REACTIVE to these situations which means you are behind the curve all the time with the criminal having PROACTIVITY on their side along with surprise and self committal to the cause of their actions.

Pontificating and visualizing is one thing. Putting that into practice and being physically involved and understanding how demanding a fighting shotgun is, well that's another whole animal.

After these courses I've seen things a bit differently. I'd rather fight my way to my long gun than being caught with my pants down.
 
"Shot Placement"

Water Monkey, you have hit some major points of why I want to get a handgun. Working downstairs or letting the dogs out, my shotgun stays upstairs. I'm not going to grab it every time and take it with me.
I would feel a lot better with something on my hip for those what if moments. Upstairs the 12g is always right beside me.

Also when I'm away I feel my girl would be able to handle a 9mm way better than the 590A1. We are working on that and might even pick up a 20g for her.

I'm hoping to take some classes this year so I can up my skills.

For the most part, by the time they got in and found there way upstairs, I'll be waiting.
 
Tom396 said:
Just a question here. Those of you using a handgun as your go-to firearm in home defense, where do you hope your first shot hits the attacker?
if it was a perfect storm right in the head, in reality center mass and as many holes as I can manage to create, I am not to proud to take whatever shot I have though. If that's in the shin then so be it and I hope that shot leads to a better shot or a lot of pain and blood loss.
One of the reasons the CZ SP-01 is my bedside pistol is that I can literally empty the mag of 19 in about 4 seconds into a 3 inch group at 10 yards. The all metal , full dust cover, TLR1 weight just keeps the weapon on target like no other pistol I have ever shot loaded with what I believe to be the deadliest ammunition available in that caliber.
The pistol is more nimble indoors and a lot harder to get taken away then a long gun indoors.
But as they say , best laid plans of mice and men often go astray so I remain flexible, open minded and poised to recognize and seize any opportunity presented before me
 
so far its been great, I would like more of different statures but I need more money lol....If I could only have one side arm it would be that one.
I like "heavy" and the grip is like noting that hit your hand before or after. It is said to be the improved Hipower and the Hipower is the improved 1911...
Reliability: The U.S. Army "Mean Rounds Between Failure" (MRBF) requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols. During testing of the CZ P-01, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired. This is a .05% failure rate or an MRBF of 2142!


I want a RAMI BD 2075 for some ccing but my Glock trigger finger is coming around so I am completely satisfied with the 29 for that job .....still one of everything sounds good lol
 
I'm not quite ready to carry a gun around the house 24/7, but I get your point. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
do like me Tom and have em stashed around.....still though not as fast as packing it all day even at home.....
I , like Tom, am not into that. I have and do in a vehicle now. I never used to, I would just put it in the console when I was driving but anymore its always concealed on me other then when home, always real close though.
Someone would have to have a plan, gun drawn to get the jump......I honestly don't think I have anything worth a bad guy making a plan for lol...
 
This has been an enlightening thread for me. Getting back to the initial premise, where do you aim your first shot? Center mass, or something more specific? I can tell you that I'm hoping for center mass and I'll settle for what I can get. Take care. Tom Worthington
 
Many of the problems discussed above arise because of inadequate warning that something is going down. I understand that the majority of people don't live in a spot where a minute or 2 or even 10 sec. of advance warning is possible, but every second you can gain is worth the effort and expense of improving your home security to provide that few seconds. My wife and I are blessed with being far enough out in the woods that we have a minimum of 30sec warning to get our act together against the common home invasion threats that folks have to deal with. 30 sec doesn't sound like much, but it's a whole lot better than 3 sec. :)
 
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