• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

Troubling Numbers


Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country?

A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country.

Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country.
Wish they'd just go ahead leave now.

I would bet a donut that most of the people that say they would leave, have already left their original country already, so they have no sentimental attachment to anything here besides the free stuff.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Good riddance.

Well clearly you can’t expect people to tell the truth in these matters.

3/4 of everybody who said they would leave would be lazy enough to stick around until it was too late to run. They wouldn’t be prepared to fight either.

You won’t enjoy hiding behind their soy-bloated corpses, but cover’s good when you can get it.
I have no desire to live anywhere else and I have no desire to go fight a war but if war comes to me I'll do what must be done.
I have no desire to live anywhere else and I have no desire to go fight a war but if war comes to me I'll do what must be done.

Yeah, the home team usually has the advantage.

But, I don't ever really see a Red Dawn type invasion in the US. At least not initially.

At first, a low yield nuke in orbit to shut down most electricity and electronics would cripple the majority of the North American continent (Canada and Mexico as well).

This would set in motion a domino affect where the people here would take out large numbers of their fellow countrymen who would later be the resistance that the invader wouldn't have to deal with after we're weakened to the point where they would launch a ground invasion.

It would start in the major cities and financial and government locations now. Those that can be made to pledge allegience to them will stay in power, those that don't will be made an example of.

Sadly, many people at that point will be tired of fighting and struggling and wanting their lives to get back to "normal" would do just about anything/anyone to get that back so at the end of the day, we'd be the ones largely fighting each other. At least for the first while, then you'll be outnumbered by the weakest that will turn you in to their new handlers.

Half of them already lick the hand that feeds them (Samuel Adams quote).

Such is life.

Not much ever seems to change. This is how humans have done for millennia.
The breakout of these numbers are online but a couple of categories stand out.

Of those in the age group 18 - 34 only 45% indicated they would stay whereas 48% indicated they would leave the country. Like most conflicts these are the primary aged fighters.

The other interesting number was the response by women. Only 40% indicated they would stay and fight while 52% indicated they would leave.

These survey numbers are broken down by age groups, gender, race, college educated, political leanings, etc.

While it's only one study, it certainly draws parallels with what happened in the 60s and early 70s when so many young men left the country to avoid the draft and serving in the Vietnam conflict.

Last edited:
I have to think that we need more context in the original survey. Were they asking the various groups that as Americans to imagine if they would fight or flee if they were Ukrainians in Ukraine, or were they asked if they would fight or flee if it was the U.S. beings invaded? Then the larger question would become, just where do they think they are going to go given some force, short of an alien invasion, had the means to mount an attack on American soil? If America was unable to fend off an enemy capable of overtaking it, is any other place on earth going to provide you with safe harbor in the long term?
As one who has lived more than 50% of his life, my attitude on the end has evolved. I'm not liking the world my children will be growing up in. :( Along with increased wisdom, there is increased ruthlessness. For the species to continue, people are going to have to die--I'm talking billions--there are just too many here for the Earth to handle sustainably.

So in the event of a scenario as proposed by John (and it will probably never happen because of that mutually assured destruction thing ;) ), I believe that the cities will turn into a zone of starvation and disease with the weak preyed upon by all manner of bad people. Rural peoples who prepared and/or are more self-sufficient will fare much better. When supplies run out, roving gangs will leave the city to go loot nearby communities. The further they get from the cities, the more likely they will be to be picked off (ie: sniped). Why deal with an enemy from 100' when you can deal with him from 1000'?

I think of this because at least once weekly, perps are busted in my area who came from nearby cities such as Orlando and Sanford. They are NOT going to each others cities... It usually involves under 18 thugs and sometimes a car chase (car is stolen) and sometimes they run and that will involve a police dog. The sheriff has a FB page where they post vids of the chomping which is NEVER enough for most people... ;) Anyhow, these will be the likely coyotes that neighborhood wolves and sheepdogs will have to slay.
Bobster, agree with you.

IMO, the two things we need to be aware of and prepare for are Starvation and People Behaving Badly.

The vast majority of the inter city residents are ill prepared and many will likely become desperate after three days or so. Over time the chaos will spread to the rural areas. But, certainly believe rural America has become aware of this and in most cases has prepared for the invasion.

Organized South American gangs are reportedly figuring out which wealthy people have multiple homes, and where they’re staying, through a network of domestic servants.

Family leaves, maid makes some calls, then the house gets robbed.

So far it’s always dash and grab. They’re not cleaning the places out but only going for the small high ticket items and money.
If John's scenario happened and an EMP attack or multiples of them over NA it would be utterly devastating. In such a scenario, I'm pretty well screwed along with most everyone else. Leaving for 99% of folks wouldn't even be an option. There aren't enough non-computerized vehicles around to carry even a decent percentage. Besides like Rodburner said, if the US fell or was mostly fallen where are people gonna go? Mexico? Nope...you'll be carved up before you get past the border. Canada? Nope...we'll be likely worse off than you (especially if Ruskies are advancing over the pole) and winter sucks once you get a couple hundred klicks north of the 49th. Most people, even Canadians aren't prepared to live in it. The bulk of our population resides within a couple hundred kms of the border so you gotta go through civilization to get to relative safety. So, even if you had access to an old analog aircraft or boat where do you go?

However, I still think the idea of parking a deuce and a half in the backyard for a "break glass in case of emergency" type situation is warranted. I just need to convince the wife........
Bobster, agree with you.

IMO, the two things we need to be aware of and prepare for are Starvation and People Behaving Badly.

The vast majority of the inter city residents are ill prepared and many will likely become desperate after three days or so. Over time the chaos will spread to the rural areas. But, certainly believe rural America has become aware of this and in most cases has prepared for the invasion.

I think you're spot on there Ernst. My understanding from experts who've studied these scenarios (as best as one could) is the reason they recommend a minimum of 3 days supplies is because that's basically how long before "normal" people start to become desperate. Baddies will be bad right out of the gate and will be roaming about looking for lambs. If many people had at least 3 days supplies of food and water and there was any government hierarchy and infrastructure still functioning then they could look to having 6-7 days to restore some utilities or bring in supplies without having mass chaos on their hands. That is the best, worst case scenario.
A few points I think are relevant. Government agencies can be counted on to have the latest and greatest technology. Their vehicles are all conputer controlled, and I doubt hardened. There will be no rescue or even communication for some time.

I too think the big cities will be chaotic in 3 days. A plan is important, actually A,B, and C. Hopefully things will never come to such a scenario, but in my adult life I cannot think of crazier or scarier events and times.
I suggest that you guys that are interested, download this:
https://ia801005.us.archive.org/34/items/TheSHTFAnthologySelco/The SHTF Anthology - Selco.pdf

Illusions were the first victims when SHTF. Here are a few of many: “There are police, this cannot happen. There is law, this is against the law.“ Actually, the police are police when the system works. When it does not work, the police are just a bunch of trained people with weapons, and it is completely up to them what they are going to do. “I have rights.” Yes, when there is a system and law to protect those rights. If you want to have rights when SHTF you have to be ready to protect them. “I have gun and lot of ammo. I will firmly stand my ground." Good luck with that. There is a huge number of people already organized in violent groups, ready and skilled in violence, who wait for the system to collapse to jump in. People with more guns, more ammo, more skills than you, and less morals and ethics. You need to lower your expectations. “This kind of chaos cannot happen here (in the US). We have the best political system in the world.” This is my favorite actually because in my case the S. did hit the fan. For some period of time I was repeating this to myself, and even more, something like “This can happen only in some country in Africa, not here. Somebody going to stop this.” It can happen, and actually, it would be very bad because fall is going to be bigger. It is going to hurt much more, and people are going to be shocked much more.
That is from a 2018 book titled The SHTF Anthology by Selco Begovic from Bosnia.

It's only 149 pages and so far it's a pretty good read. The first 10 pages sound like what we just went through in the last 6 years.
1B6500D9-E979-409A-BA08-7540E8FB224C.png It’s just a crazy time, that’s for sure. Ukraine is a little smaller than Texas, yet just a winter ago, Texas was brought to a standstill by some cold weather. But unlike the weather, the Russian army is on a mission that isn’t likely to end until a similar level of support comes from Ukraine’s friends. I have to believe that most all of us delude ourselves into thinking our best laid plans, safes full of weapons and even unlimited rounds will somehow be enough when it does hit the fan. Surveys are fine,but not finite..View attachment 26876
Last edited:
I've said this before but really believe we all should become our own "first responders" whether it be fire response, medical or security. It certainly can happen in North American and the events and chaos within Canada and the U.S. over the last two or so years clearly demonstrates this. Anyone living in rural settings certainly see this daily. Our law enforcement response at night (one deputy) is 45 minutes at best. Plus we've seen personnel layoffs across all governemnt services due to the recent shot mandates. Some of our local government service providers are down on personnel by a third and not likely to fill vacancies anytime soon.

Best to plan for the worst case and enjoy available support if it happens.

One other thought - having an old truck or tractor without any electronics and which we can maintain ourselves is to me a necessary thing.