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Wanting to do some work to an old pump

John A. said:
I'm looking forward to going with him [my youngest son] and spending some time in my old stomping grounds :)
With any luck, may get some squirrel gravy as a bonus.
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Well THAT :good: is the perfect follow up. :perfect: You make good decisions. Keep doing that kind of stuff.
 
Scoop, I learned many years ago that kids are only small for a little while. I have two that are grown and have families of their own now and I understand how hard it is to get time with them. Heck. My oldest is almost 30 now. Even getting time with the grandkids is sometimes difficult, so when I have a chance to spend quality time with them, I try. I know how precious time is. And as I get older, I realize that I probably have more time behind me than I do in front of me. So, I enjoy it while I can.
 
John A. said:
I certainly understand. There's a lot of guns that I haven't changed a thing on.

This gun, really doesn't shoot near as well as I think it should. It's a shotgun. It scatters pellets. So, it is working.

But, it scatters them randomly and much wider and faster/closer than I believe it should. And hence my dilemma.
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John, I’m gonna hijack your thread. I read the word “Change” many times in this thread. Here’s my change. This was a Madsen m50. Hated the stock to this is my Frankenstein.
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No apologies necessary.

Sweet looking 'sheen gun. The Madsen is one that I have never fired.
 
I'm not into wall hangers either John, but I can see how I could get there...LOL! I have to echo the 2nd barrel option. I like my guns functional and pretty is a bonus. All my guns are shooters. I did send out my Dad's ol' Winchester lever for the full meal deal. I picked two different guys...one guy for the metal work and another for the wood. It's taking months and I don't care, both guys are semi-retired and in no hurry. I'm hopeful it'll be a real stunner when it's finished....certainly better than anything I could turn out on my own. It's definitely a shooter but for sentimental reasons may end up being more of a display piece in the end.

To each their own. I decided to revive the old girl because there is no terrific, intrinsic value in that particular vintage of Model 94's (early 70's), so refinishing it professionally will only add to its value not detract. I only hope I can show it to my Dad before it's too late and present it like he first saw it brand new over 50 years ago.
 
Very good Cmcdonald. I hope they finish it soon too. I remember you showing me pictures of it a while back. And the old chair upholstery bead nails in the stock.

On a side note, my son and I went squirrel hunting this morning. We were out for a few hours, and had a good time. Saw several squirrels (most of which were near the edge of the atmosphere in the top of some old growth trees. They were so high up in the beech trees that we didn't even pull the trigger on those. It would've been a waste of a shell.

But, we did get one a little later in the morning. Yes, using my old 16 gauge single shot. (not the pump that I've been talking about). My son went over and picked it up for me and confirmed that the old 16 gauge was still doing its' job. He told me that it was tore up pretty good. But was still plenty good enough to come home and have breakfast of champions with. We had biscuits and squirrel gravy and and scrambled eggs and some apple butter. And I must say, either I was starved to death or it was better than usual because both of us were stuffed. Even had a few spoonfuls of gravy left over that we gave to the dog and he didn't waste any of it either.

Yes sirs. Today was a good day.
 
Fry the squirrel meat up in a skillet, use the squirrel grease to make gravy by adding flour and stirring until it's brown then adding milk while stirring constantly with a big spoon until the right consistency. Add pepper and salt to taste.

I'm not real partial to the squirrel meat itself to be honest. Never really liked the meat. But, I give it to my dog so it's not wasted. I mostly just use the grease.
 
John A. said:
Very good Cmcdonald. I hope they finish it soon too. I remember you showing me pictures of it a while back. And the old chair upholstery bead nails in the stock.

On a side note, my son and I went squirrel hunting this morning. We were out for a few hours, and had a good time. Saw several squirrels (most of which were near the edge of the atmosphere in the top of some old growth trees. They were so high up in the beech trees that we didn't even pull the trigger on those. It would've been a waste of a shell.

But, we did get one a little later in the morning. Yes, using my old 16 gauge single shot. (not the pump that I've been talking about). My son went over and picked it up for me and confirmed that the old 16 gauge was still doing its' job. He told me that it was tore up pretty good. But was still plenty good enough to come home and have breakfast of champions with. We had biscuits and squirrel gravy and and scrambled eggs and some apple butter. And I must say, either I was starved to death or it was better than usual because both of us were stuffed. Even had a few spoonfuls of gravy left over that we gave to the dog and he didn't waste any of it either.

Yes sirs. Today was a good day.
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That sounds like a great morning John! Some time in the woods with your boy and a tasty meal to finish it off...sounds fantastic to me!

You are correct...that stock was beat to crap from the upholstery nails and all the scars from years of hiking and dragging that sucker over rocks. Dad used a pair of old RCMP issue handcuffs to secure the rifle...they were hell on the finish too.

I'd really like to take a nice deer, elk or moose with it when its done...would be so worth it just for the picture and the memory. Maybe I could retire it to display only after that, but who knows? I'm sentimental but not hard-core sentimental.
 
Ok, I wanted to ask a quick question. And in typical manner, it's unorthodox.

It's impossible to get a 16 ga tap to thread the internal area of the barrel to screw in chokes.

But, I have a lathe and I'm not afraid to use it (that's my attempt at humor tonight).

Ok, hear me out. The shotgun isn't worth a lot of money. It's just not. The most I've ever heard tell anyone asking for one was recently $300. So, there's no real historic value or anything to them.

What if, for example, I cut the barrel down to lets' say 18.5 inches. The exterior diameter of the barrel is .81'ish near where I would be cutting it.

So, what if I threaded the external portion of the barrel 3/4"-16 and made a short (2 or 2.25") barrel extension that would act as an extended choke tube? I could taper the mouth internally of it nearest the threads so there wouldn't be a "speed bump" to where it wouldn't snag the wads, but since a 16 gauge full choke barrel is 5/8" internal measurements, I could simply bore the inside of the extension out for a full choke.

For that matter, I could make a set of chokes that way. Full. Xtra full turkey. Modified or whatever.

The main difference in my idea is the choke would be external rather than internal. Be about the same length as an internal one too. The only difference is mine would be external and sticking out the end of the barrel.

I can turn the exterior of the choke tube down to better match the outside diameter of the barrel, so it wouldn't be very noticable. I'd use 4130 chromemoly steel, which has a very high tensile strength. More than strong enough to withstand shotgun shells.

So, what do you think? Try it or not?
 
I'd be concerned if it was overbored as some barrels are before the muzzle and choke. Maybe if you have a internal telescoping tool to check?
 
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I don't have anything to measure that far back. I'd be cutting almost 10 inches of the barrel off. The exterior of the barrel is tapered. I assume the interior is as well. Making it larger inside diameter as it is the outside the further back it goes.

Thanks for bringing that up. I hadn't given that any consideration. But now that you have, I'm leaning against trying it because you're almost certainly correct about it.

If only there were a way for me to squish the end of the barrel down like how they hammer forge barrels. But alas, I don't have any kind of equipment needed to do that.
 
Alright gents. I have figured out exactly how I'm going to do this. It will likely be a while because there's a lot going on, but I'm going to use a 20 gauge choke tap/reamer for a Rem choke.

Yes, I know. 20 gauge is the wrong thing.

Sort of.

I'm wanting a full choke in this gun anyway, or even a little more than full choke is fine with me too. That's no problem with the 20 gauge.

I will have to taper ream the mouth of the choke at an angle so the wad doesn't strike the edge of the choke and thus blowing it out the barrel and stuck at the choke. So, it will be taper reamed or honed at an angle at the mouth to give it a smooth transition. I can do that on my lathe.

The thing with a 16 gauge full choke that I wasn't thinking of, 16 ga full choke is the same size as a 20 gauge cylinder bore choke diameter. So, the two overlap. But as I mentioned, I'll have to smooth the transitional area where the choke meets the barrel bore. That's no problem and there's enough meat on the choke to do it too. I just have to angle it at the mouth.

The 20ga Rem choke, the outside diameter of the choke itself is .704". The 16 barrel bore is closer to .648'ish. Plenty of room for the threads and I won't even have to ream out as much metal from the bore either as doing a regular 20 gauge barrel. So, this is going to be a win win.

When I do the rent-a-reamer thing, I will need to make my own barrel bushing to use in it though. Again, that's something I can do no problem.

In order for me to make a more open choke (like a modified 16 bore choke-which I also want to make one for it) I will have to bore out the entire 20 ga choke to 21/32, which is .656" and taper the mouth of it a little too-even less than I will need to do for the full choke, but that's simple enough too. So, this is certainly going to be a project that I can do.

The numbers line up. Everything will be within the minor/major diameters of everything, other than a few special details, but I can do this.

Barrel length is cut to about 22 inches. I didn't really want an 18 for this, and I didn't want a 28" barrel either. So, 22 inches seems like a nice handy length.

Stupid choke is gone now.

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Already looking better at least.

By the time I get done with it, it should hold a decent pattern too. Just by putting it up to my cheek and looking over the barrel, it feels good. A bit shorter than most of the other guns I hunt with. But, not crazy short.

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I know that it may look a little odd on such an old gun, but will probably go with a fiber optic front sight on it. To be honest, I'm considering one of the truglo snap on sights. I can drill tap the barrel, but there's not really any way to adjust it to the POI if you need to. With the snap on style, I will be able to at least move it left and right a little to fine tune it before I JB weld it and or/drill and tap it. That would probably give me a little more leeway.
 
John A. said:
I don't have anything to measure that far back. I'd be cutting almost 10 inches of the barrel off. The exterior of the barrel is tapered. I assume the interior is as well. Making it larger inside diameter as it is the outside the further back it goes.

Thanks for bringing that up. I hadn't given that any consideration. But now that you have, I'm leaning against trying it because you're almost certainly correct about it.

If only there were a way for me to squish the end of the barrel down like how they hammer forge barrels. But alas, I don't have any kind of equipment needed to do that.
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From what I read on the internet, which I read can never be wrong or lie, says that no matter how much the barrel tapers externally, the bore is not. Any taper internally would affect pressure retention and create blow by. Make a cool suppressor that allows for interchangeable chokes ???
 
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