AR15 OPTICS POLL

[aksavanaman]

As the polls states, given the limitations of the AR15 platform, specifically in .223/5.56 calibers, which optic would you choose? Keep in mind what role the AR15 is designed to fill, and lets be specific to narrow our choices, meaning your target distances are 0-350 Meters (Yards) in a fighting carbine/rifle configuration. While I'm perfectly aware that AR's can shoot well beyond this... Let's be honest and say you'd probably grab a high powered bolt action rifle with some significant glass to go past that 300-400 range... 1....2....3... GO!

 

[mingaa]

Wow - I am so not the guy to go first. DPMS Sportical, pics when I am not on the phone. Simmons 1.5-5 32mm scope on Nikon mounts, UTG BUIS 45* mounts for CQB then switch to the scope out to 100' +? Shooting club level 3-Gun and other action multi gun events. Entry level underdog positioning for sure but that can be a win win and a great place to continue to learn and train. Better than dropping 5K and having no clue what to do with it!!

 

[aksavanaman]

^That's what I'm after mingaa... I like that you're giving me reasons... not just brands.

I have tried Aimpoint, Eotech, a Redfield 2-7x32 and a Leupold 1-4x20... I just haven't found a sweet spot yet. I think my problems is that I want my AR to fulfill too many roles, I need to pick one and choose the optic appropriately.

I'd love to try an ACOG... in concept it seems a pretty good all around fit... besides the $1200 price tag, but given it's a buy once forget for 15 years optic.... could be a good choice. That was my vote... but mainly because I think it looks great and I haven't gotten to use one

 

[KentuckyWindage]

I vote Trijicon ACOG. I have tried Eotec, Aim Point micro, 1-4 leupold. The ACOG was the best for my needs.
Shameless pic

 

[aksavanaman]

I vote Trijicon ACOG. I have tried Eotec, Aim Point micro, 1-4 leupold. The ACOG was the best for my needs.
Shameless pic

You've got an ACOG and the Sopmod stock (I've got the B5 on mine and love it!)... Looking sexy How does the ACOG perform for you at the 0-50 range?

 

[oli700]

Other

Dude, you would ask the hardest question in the world.

I have been throwing this around since I build my rifle……..the way I see it.

With just a red dot I can shoot in all positions because a cheek weld/eye relief/eye box is not an issue

My problem is I am a marksman…..I hate being able to shoot a 1/2 inch ragged hole at 50 with my red dot and at 100 it opens up to 4 inches, then at 200 its about 10 inches…..kills me.

That’s when I started looking into 1-4 scopes, thinking it’s the best of both worlds. Upon research I found the trade offs.

I have a lot of hunting scope experience so I know the down sides of scopes but figured I never had one that went down all the way to 1x.
With a scope you need good eye alignment every time, perfect eye relief, even on 1x.
Now I haven’t tried this but have read that even on 1x the scopes still don’t quite work like a red dot/Eotech. Like the barrier drills I am doing, my understanding is that isn’t really doable with a 1-4…..especially the shots where the rifle isn’t even shouldered.
I also think the couple 1-4's I did look through at the store suffer from a slight fisheye effect......which I cant stand, I even looked through the newer 1-6 from Vortex and it had the worst fisheye feel....but it wasn't mounted so that could explain some of that.


So now I am disappointed ……I absolutely don’t want another set of iron sight on a 45 and I don’t want my micro reflex mounted on a scope ring either…..so for me that’s out.
I have a rocking set of BUIS, that are inaccessible with a scope mounted unless I go with the quick release scope base……more moving parts , more weight….

So now I am thinking I really don’t want to give up the versatility that the red dot has to offer, but I can't stand 5 inch groups at 100 yards, especially with such a capable rifle.

So now I am looking onto magnifiers…..3x. I can still use the red dot and utilize everything it brings to the table, still have access to my iron sights incase all else fails and can probably cut my groups at 100 and 200 in half. I would be happy with that.
Down side, probably more total weight than a 1-4……and an added moving part in the flip mount and the biggest snag point I possibly ever had to deal with……



So what I think I have settled on is a magnifier……want to find a 4x but most are 3x……don’t want a 6x because I want more of a field of view than the 6x provides……Since I have started the barrier shooting I cant give up the dynamic shooting capabilities that the red dot affords.

If I were to settle on a 1-4(anything possible)…..it would be a first focal plane like a Vortex 1-4 or the new Bushnell 1-4 throw down that’s coming out in July…..I would want the FFP for the ability to range targets……yeah I have been digging super deep into this subject

 

[KentuckyWindage]

I vote Trijicon ACOG. I have tried Eotec, Aim Point micro, 1-4 leupold. The ACOG was the best for my needs.
Shameless pic

You've got an ACOG and the Sopmod stock (I've got the B5 on mine and love it!)... Looking sexy How does the ACOG perform for you at the 0-50 range?

It's slow from 0-25 yards but from 25 - 200 is where it shines. There is no optic other than the Elcan that's good all around in those areas. That is combat proven. You have to drop 2k on an optic to achieve it.

 

[oli700]

that's one hella cool blaster

 

[KentuckyWindage]

that's one hella cool blaster

Thanks Oli

 

[aksavanaman]

So what I think I have settled on is a magnifier……want to find a 4x but most are 3x……don’t want a 6x because I want more of a field of view than the 6x provides……Since I have started the barrier shooting I cant give up the dynamic shooting capabilities that the red dot affords.

One thing you do need to remember is that the magnifier also increases your dot size accordingly. With a 3x Magnifier and a 2MOA dot... You're getting a 6 MOA, NOW... it is still relative to the distance (you're still covering the same amount of paper at 100yds with your dot) but some might be turned off by that affect.

And you highlight the very reason it's so darn difficult to choose an optic! I mean with an 18" barrel and some 72 grainers, you can still make effective kill shots out to 500 yds... with that you need a decent powered scope... BUT, I'd be lying if I said that's my primary goal for my AR... I'd love to be accurate out to 500, but I also want quick target acquisition at lower ranges.

Dude, you would ask the hardest question in the world.

Should make for good discussion :twisted:



KW...what's the eye relief on the ACOG?

 

[KentuckyWindage]

The eye relief is 1.5" ish that's why it's so far back on the rifle

 

[oli700]

One thing you do need to remember is that the magnifier also increases your dot size accordingly. With a 3x Magnifier and a 2MOA dot... You're getting a 6 MOA, NOW... it is still relative to the distance (you're still covering the same amount of paper at 100yds with your dot) but some might be turned off by that affect.

Yeah, like you said though it magnifies the target all the same so a bit moot. I believe I would tighten groups just by being able to see the target better, not expecting the results of a nice cross hair…..although I am tempted to see just what the rifle will do with a precision scope and rest….then I won’t be happy with the trigger so…..yeah, still want it to be a battle rifle first and not get into accurizing as much as I can….plenty accurate already…..just a tad of magnification would be nice

But nothing is written in stone and would like to spend time with both setups before I decide

Another cool thing about a scope that might mitigate the need for BUIS is that the illuminated 1-4's usually keep the reticle after the electronics fail.....I just cant get over how worthless my SG was when I lost the dot and had no backup sighting....it wasn't in a life or death situation or anything and it was still disturbing what I couldn't hit without it.

And you highlight the very reason it's so darn difficult to choose an optic! I mean with an 18" barrel and some 72 grainers, you can still make effective kill shots out to 500 yds

Yeah….that is a long way. But I can see getting the hit, the kill is another question…..My bud Tyler got a Chrony last week.
Last weekend we concluded the 18” barrel is an average of 200 fps faster at the muzzle then the 16 inch…..using factory loaded ammo for the test

 

[John A.]

Now you done and went and opened Pandora's Box Alaska man.

I personally can't justify paying twice as much on the optic as I did the whole gun. As for holographic sights, the Trijicon reflex is about half the price of the acog.

If I were going to spend $1000 plus on an optic, hands down, it would be a Pulsar Digisight N550 for a myriad of reasons, namely the hoot owl side of it and is a day/night scope.

Here's a link to one of my buddies ridding his property of some nasty feral hogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=004Yy3uxOcU

Eotech and Aimpoints are good, but offer no onboard magnification, which can lend itself to letting you be more accurate when you can see the target better. Though, there are flip to side scopes available for them.

Between the two, I prefer the eotech because my eye picks up on the reticle so much faster than a little red speck.

And in the eotech line, I prefer either the 512 if you do not need night vision, or the 552 if you do need NV capability. But those models specifically, because they're powered by AA batteries. As is the Pulsar night vision Digiscope.

 

[mingaa]

Time for new pics - this is with the old Bushnell on it. Still lower end, the Simmons 1.5 - 5 is a big improvement. I use the BUIS well to 15-20 yds the go to the scope. Foregrip is now farther back, have a rail light if/when I need it (off for competition). Magpul shield is my addition + the adjustable high front gas block and rail. The Nikon scope mounts are nice, separate units and reversible. Kind of the Chevy Impala's of ARs but it is accurate and has never let me down and at a great price point for the package.

 

[aksavanaman]

Now you done and went and opened Pandora's Box Alaska man.

I was bored and thought I'd start a nice debate

I personally can't justify paying twice as much on the optic as I did the whole gun

What if my AR cost me $1200 to put together (...wait... I already know you're answer " Why did you spend so much????)

 

[John A.]

(...wait... I already know you're answer " Why did you spend so much????)

^

In all fairness, looking back, I have had some expensive guns and gear myself but "Chef don't judge".

I'm of the school that if it works for you, that's all that matters.

Me personally though, I don't think I have ever paid more than about $750 to build a complete AR, and I have had some very nice ones over the years. It's the aftermarket stuff that'll kill you.

 

[KentuckyWindage]

Now you done and went and opened Pandora's Box Alaska man.

I was bored and thought I'd start a nice debate

I personally can't justify paying twice as much on the optic as I did the whole gun

What if my AR cost me $1200 to put together (...wait... I already know you're answer " Why did you spend so much????)

Quality AR's are expensive. So are quality optics. 1200 is not a lot to have in a good base carbine. Like JohnA says accessories are what kill you. If you start out with a quality rifle you will never second guess your equipment. Same goes for optics.

 

[aksavanaman]

Me personally though, I don't think I have ever paid more than about $750 to build a complete AR, and I have had some very nice ones over the years. It's the aftermarket stuff that'll kill you.

If I would've stuck with "mil-spec" stuff I think I could've come close. But my barrel and BCG where almost $500 alone She sure shoots straight though I won't lie... I'm a sucker for some of the name brand stuff that ups the $$$

But...as far as glass goes... I'm done wasting money. I want something that will outlast the abuse I inted for it and then some.

 

[DHonovich]

I am a huge fan of the 1-6x optics and my personal favorite at the moment are the swfa ss 1-6x hd. Having red dot at 1x and then being able to flip the throwlever to have 6x is priceless for me.

 

[aksavanaman]

I'm surprised no one has chosen Iron's for "other"... now I'm a fan of making life more simple so an optic makes sense, but there's a good portion of guys that just run their AR's with irons.

Mine sits currently without optics (haven't decided what I want... can you believe that??? ) and just a set of Daniel Defense fixed irons, and I forget how accurate iorns can be if you know what you're doing... low light is of course another story.