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Bear Creek Arsenal/Moore Manufacturing

Discussion in 'Long Guns' started by John A., Mar 23, 2018.

  1. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    I just wanted to share an incident that my middle son has been suffering through to hopefully prevent some of you from having to go through like he has.

    Back on 2/9/2018, my son ordered a 7.62x39 complete bear creek arsenal upper receiver from classic firearms.

    In fairness, classic has tried to help some, but ultimately, it is up to them to make this right because they are the vendor that he purchased it from.

    The original barrel was chambered short. meaning, wrong. He loaded the gun, but the bolt wasn't closed all the way. It wouldn't chamber the round.

    We had to mortar it so badly that the charging handle bent in the process of finally getting the round out. Seperating the upper and lower was not an option since the bolt carrier group was too far rearward and prevented the lower from separating.

    Here you can see where the bullet dug into the rifling lands near the arrow. Obviously, the chamber did not enough room for the widest spot on the bullet to clear and chamber.

    [​IMG]

    And for reference that I'm not just making this stuff up:

    [​IMG]

    He contacted classic, and they referred him to bear creek to send it back for repair.

    Fast forward several more weeks.

    Other than an email saying they got his upper the day it was delivered, he tried contacting them. They said it'll go out in a few days.

    Fast forward another week, still nothing. Even though bca's website shows that they have the uppers in stock.

    He calls Classic again.

    Classic must've contacted bca because later that evening he got a tracking number.

    Fast forward until today when UPS dropped it off.

    He got a new upper and a magazine.

    He thought, great, let's go shoot.

    We go up to the range, round chambers,

    bolt does not close.

    WTH?

    Bolt does not remove live round from chamber.

    Even bigger WTH?

    We use a rod to tap out the bullet easily.

    We then take the upper off and I look at the bolt.

    It's a 223 bolt, not a 7.62x39 bolt.

    I contacted classic because ultimately, it's up to them where this goes from here, but I recommended to my son to dispute the charges.

    He said he'll wait to see what classic does but at this point, he's disgusted with trying.

    Just for reference, here is the bolt that was in the upper.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It is in fact a 223 bolt. A 7.62x39 cartridge rim is .443" in diameter.

    I look up bear creeks address to see what kind of joint the place is. If you get on street view, you can see that the building is marked MMC corporate HQ. Not, bear creek arsenal.

    So, when I look up MMC, comes up moore manufacturing. Which also has AR15's listed on their website.

    So, apparently, someone either has a marking variance approved with atf, or someone is doing business as bear creek arsenal to pad their liability.

    There you have it.

    http://www.mooresmachine.com/index.html

    Notice the building that google lists on the streetview if you search for bear creek arsenal is one in the same.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=bear creek arsenal&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=

    https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/
    meanstreak likes this.
  2. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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  3. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Moderator Supporter

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    3,877
    thanks for the info. Man what a shit company
  4. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    2,211
    Good heads up. I remember DJcala mentioning that he was asking them about some custom pieces. Don't recall weather anything came of it or not.
    Djcala likes this.
  5. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    He called classic firearms again today.

    And again, classic referred him straight back to bca, where they sent him another return shipping label. I can tell you now that I won't ever buy anything from classic or bear creek after this circus.

    For what it is worth, I wrote Tim Perry, Moore's plant manager an email this evening. If anyone is interested in reading it, speaks volumes and is a lot nicer than I wanted to be.

    ------------------------------------

    Good evening Mr. Perry.

    I am contacting you this evening on behalf of my son.

    He purchased a bear creek 7.62x39 complete upper receiver from classic firearms on 2/9/2018. The classic firearms order number was 1004014XX. As you can see by the date of my email, has been more than 6 weeks since he purchased it, and he has yet to be able to use it.

    The chamber was cut short in the first upper receiver, and was unable to chamber a round. Thankfully, the bolt would not close enough to allow the firing pin to hit the primer, which would have almost certainly caused a catastrophic failure if it had.

    This was despite having 3 spent cases in with the upper when he opened up that would indicate that it was test fired, however, that would not have been possible since the bolt would not fully close on a chambered round. And this would also indicate that the upper was not properly headspaced when it left your company.
    He returned the upper back to you upon discovering this to bca. The fedex tracking number for that was 1zre88799090381XXX. It was addressed to Andi Penix/warranty.

    After almost a month and a couple of phone calls later, bca finally returned the upper receiver to him. That tracking number of the replacement upper was 1zre88790363610XXX shipped on 3/21/17. It was received by him on 3/23/18.

    Upon trying to fire the second upper receiver he got from you, we discovered that someone from your company had installed a .223 bolt carrier group in the upper receiver instead of the correct 7.62x39 bolt that the upper was chambered in.

    Again, would not have been possible to headspace the upper with an incorrect caliber bolt and is more than a coincidence. That is down right negligent.

    This being the second upper receiver that was not headspaced properly and having to return it too this is abysmal. Both would have showed up defective if your company had taken enough care and pride in your work to have taken 3 minutes to have checked it.

    I am enclosing several photographs that I have also shared with classic firearms in hopes that you will stand behind your product and get this properly resolved quickly because it is obvious that whoever you have QC'ing these uppers and assembling them are not checking these assemblies and doing their job.

    After doing more checking, it looks like he is not alone because there was another report to the better business bureau dated 2/28/18 just after my sons purchase from another upper receiver that did have a catastrophic failure due to you not checking the headspace. https://www.bbb.org/raleigh-durham/business-reviews/gun-dealers/bear-creek-arsenal-in-sanford-nc-90279494/reviews-and-complaints?section=reviews

    See the photos that are attached. I would appreciate hearing from you about this. You may call me at -------- or by replying to my email. Thank you.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    meanstreak likes this.
  6. zzrguy

    zzrguy .410

    Messages:
    58
    Wow I would call classic and tell them they take it back or loss the upper and the money when you dispute the charge.

    I would recomend you contact your CC company and start a case. I had a repair done to me truck and the guy screwed it up after three returns to get it fixed I started a case the forth time it returned he found out about it and sent my truck to another shop unknown to him my friend worked there they replace the parts he said he put in and now my truck is fine he told the other shop I was a scumbag and trying to steal his money with a dispute.
    If they get a bunch of disputes they pay more to the CC company to process sales and if they get to many loss the ability to except CCs.
    meanstreak and John A. like this.
  7. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    If it doesn't come back fixed this time, he is going to dispute the charges. Though it will be through classic rather than bear creek.

    And what he informed the girl at classic, this was their last chance to make it right because while it may be a warranty issue, classic sold it and is ultimately responsible for it.

    He has spoken at length with classic, who keeps referring him to bca, who it bothers to answer the phone or reply to emails.

    He is much more patient than I. I would've had my limit when it got here last week.

    FWIW, I haven't gotten a reply or a phone call from Mr. Perry today either. I'm not holding my breath that it will happen, but he was told.
    meanstreak likes this.
  8. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    This is just wrong on so many levels. Warranty, safety, liability, and reputation.
  9. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    I see bear creek stuff for sale all the time, I might even have a barrel in my inventory, still unused. Thanks for the heads up
    meanstreak likes this.
  10. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    Primary Arms carries it. Almost thought about getting a complete 9mm upper for my current build. Glad I didn't.
    hombre243 and meanstreak like this.
  11. tcecil88

    tcecil88 .30-06

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    After reading about John A's son's issues and my own experience with one of their rifles, there appears to be a QC problem at Bear Creek Arsenal.
    I was at the range the other day and the gentleman in the lane next to me asked if I would look at his rifle. He said it constantly jammed up. I looked at it and the castle nut had backed off (not torqued or staked) and the buffer tube backed out enough the the rear take down pin plunger and spring were gone. When I opened it up, the rifle pretty much flew apart as the buffer retainer and spring were laying in the lower receiver down by the trigger. I showed the owner the problems and asked where he had bought it. He bought it new from a local shop and had fired it only a few times. I gave the guy a break as it was obvious he and his Dad were not familiar with AR pattern rifles or guns in general. I put it back together the best I could and told him to take it back to the shop he bought it from and have them deal with it. I looked at the lower to see what manufacture it was and low and behold, Bear Creek Arsenal.
    cmcdonald likes this.
  12. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    Would you believe that he still doesn't have the upper back from bca the 2nd time?

    True story.

    In 2 days (4/9) will be exactly 2 months to the day he purchased it and is yet to fire his first shot.

    Totally unacceptable.
  13. tcecil88

    tcecil88 .30-06

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    With as cheap and popular as AR's are nowadays, a company cannot afford to put out sh!tty products. Bear Creek will build and put out enough trash to where no one will buy their crap and they will either have to improve or shut down, but then they just open up under a new name. The people like your son and the man I met are the only ones that will suffer as they are stuck with the trash.
    You mentioned Classic Firearms. I got my 5.56 pistol's barrel, gas tube, and BCG from them. They seem to be good quality and the prices were hard to beat. They call them premium grade barrels and BCG's. I hope they are not Bear Creek. o_O
  14. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    I believe Monday he is going to call classic, ask for a refund, and if not given, will probably dispute the charges and let classic and bca figure out what to do with it.
  15. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    When going over my part list for my 308 build I realized that the barrel I bought was a Bear Creek Arsenal Barrel from Primary Arms.

    Guess I better check the chamber specs.
  16. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    I believe that I would Mike.

    If nothing else in the time being, ensure that you can insert a round in the chamber and it seat properly.
  17. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    Just to update the topic to put it to an end.

    On 4/9, exactly 2 months to the day that he purchased it, bear creek still had the upper (the 2nd time). Classic did finally give him a refund.

    He gave bear creek every ample opportunity to fix and return it, they failed miserably. Two minutes of attention would have likely solved the problem of it having the wrong caliber bolt in it.

    I don't even think classic was interested in refunding the money until he told them they could either refund it or he was going to hang up and go straight to the bank to file a claim with the bank/card because he was tired of excuses and BS.

    They changed their tune and that's that.
  18. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    I have not even used my barrel yet and already want to ditch it and go with a more reputable brand.
  19. zzrguy

    zzrguy .410

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    That s some Bullshit.
  20. John A.

    John A. Unconstitutional laws are not laws. Staff Member Administrator Global Moderator

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    Yeah, bear creek is a proven flop. Classic wasn't much of an improvement either.

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