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Creeping safety?

Kilrain

Kilrain

.410
So, I bought this 590A1 and was impressed by the apparent quality. I knew immediately, however, the stock was too long. So I bought a Hogue 12" overmold stock/fore grip set and got them on. They are great, no doubt.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to get to the range with this shotgun(or any other gun) recently however since it's new, I've been "handling" it quite bit, trying to get used to the safety position and what not. I also have a box of "dummy" rounds that I've been cycling through it and practicing loading, unloading, etc. and hoping to smooth the action about a bit.

I've said all that to say this, the safety creeps backward under the force of racking the gun. Sometimes it will do it after one or a couple of racks, sometimes it takes a full magazine full of racks, sometimes it doesn't do it during the course of one magazine HOWEVER it does do it. At first I thought it was because I had the muzzle elevated and maybe, just maybe, gravity was providing just enough pull to cause it but that turned out not to be true. It does it even when the barrel is parallel to the ground.

Has anyone else had this happen? I'm not really excited of having to try to deal with Mossberg customer service so if anyone has suggestions, they are appreciated.
 
Hummm........that would/will really annoy me to no end! I would contact Mossberg & tell them exactly the symptoms and insist they remedy this.
I own one that I have about 500 slugs through, never an issue.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
 
MossLvR said:
Hummm........that would/will really annoy me to no end! I would contact Mossberg & tell them exactly the symptoms and insist they remedy this.
I own one that I have about 500 slugs through, never an issue.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't mind annoying so much as potentially fatal, that bothers me more than a bit.
 
Kilrain said:
MossLvR said:
Hummm........that would/will really annoy me to no end! I would contact Mossberg & tell them exactly the symptoms and insist they remedy this.
I own one that I have about 500 slugs through, never an issue.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't mind annoying so much as potentially fatal, that bothers me more than a bit.
Click to expand...
It's the danger of potential deadly malfunction that pisses me off...........share that with Mossberg.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
 
So, here is a demonstration. Hammer down, safety off. The buttstock is resting against my thigh/hip, the muzzle is elevated 70 to 80 degrees. This is the first rack and the safety moves about half-way from the off to the on position. I was able to pull the trigger and drop the hammer........

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgo6IckWkZ4[/youtube]
 
2nd rack after the 1st. Hammer down, safety in the position that it was after the first rack.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdxDtomms7M[/youtube]

As you can see, the safety becomes fully engaged, effectively disabling the gun. Anyone experience this problem?
 
I know this sounds silly... But have you checked to see if the screw is tight... Have you taken the safety off the gun and inspected under the button to see if there was anything missing or out of place
 
While annoying it should be easily correctable. The whole mechanism is nothing more than a small spring and a ball bearing detent.

While it sucks that it woud happen on a new gun, it is easily corrected.
 
bsipes30 said:
I know this sounds silly... But have you checked to see if the screw is tight... Have you taken the safety off the gun and inspected under the button to see if there was anything missing or out of place
Click to expand...

Yes, the screw is tight. It "snaps" on and off and works fine so I tell by feel that the ball and spring are under the safety doing what they are supposed to do. Also, the gun has been disassembled twice since I got it, neither time was the safety removed and, from inside the receiver everything appears normal, best I can tell.

I'm gonna try to pull the safety this weekend and see if there is something I can't see wrong underneath it. Thanks for the reply!
 
MikeD said:
While annoying it should be easily correctable. The whole mechanism is nothing more than a small spring and a ball bearing detent.

While it sucks that it woud happen on a new gun, it is easily corrected.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's not repairable however it is potentially disastrous. I'm gonna try to pull the safety this weekend and see if there is something I can't see wrong underneath it. Thanks for the reply!
 
I read a post regarding this issue. I believe it was here. Try searching. The solution was to grind a bit off the internal safety block, The rear of the bolt was just touching it when cycling and was nudging it off. I recall the solution being successful.
 
incorrigible said:
I read a post regarding this issue. I believe it was here. Try searching. The solution was to grind a bit off the internal safety block, The rear of the bolt was just touching it when cycling and was nudging it off. I recall the solution being successful.
Click to expand...

I found a possible problem/solution combination in this thread:

http://www.mossbergowners.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=195&p=24279&hilit=bolt+hit+safety#p24279

I'll look at the back of the bolt and safety block tonight to see if they are indeed contacting.

Thanks for any input folks!
 
I figured it out. I am embarrassed to say it was my fault and I should have noticed it before I posted here. The gun is off to Mossberg for repair and I'll be happy to pay for it. I'll try to explain what happened in a later post.........
 
Hi Kilrain
I have experienced this problem with my 590. Tightening the safety screw seemed to fix it, but if there is another reason I'd love to hear it as it has proven frustrating in competition matches. Next time it happens I am considering loctiting the screw, but it sounds like I could be barking up the wrong tree.
If you prefer please PM me a note - I would be very grateful.
 
I'm interested in knowing the malfunction on this one. Please post what you find out. Safety issue's like these need to be spread around.
 
Sorry for the delay in replying, life gets in the way sometimes as I'm sure most of you are aware.

Let me start by saying that I've read/seen several complaints about Mossberg customer service but you'll not get one from me. Turn around time was about 3 weeks total, that includes shipping both ways from California to Texas and back. The gun is 100% back to it's former state and I'm a bit wiser regarding this particular gun.

So here is what happened and why it's my fault. The concept of dry fire practice and drills have always been key in maintaining my basic firearms skills. Just like any other firearm I've purchased, I familiarized myself with my new 590A1 as best I could and immediately began dry fire practice, loading/unloading and manipulation drills. The problem, that I should have noticed but didn't occur to me until I was shipping the gun, was a damaged firing. Damaged, by me, during dry fire practice.

The last time I disassembled the gun before I shipped it back, I noticed that the firing pin was backed out of the bolt a bit and the "heel"(the part the hammer strikes) had a shiny flat spot on it. For whatever reason it didn't dawn on me that the firing pin had not looked like that then I bought the gun. Apparently, the repeated dry firing had damaged the firing pin enough to allow it to slip backward, past the roll pin that retains it in the bolt. The "heel" of the firing pin was striking the safety when the gun was racked backwards.

To Mossberg's credit, they simply installed an entirely new bolt assembly and shipped it back. Now, I don't know if there was something wrong with the firing pin itself(too soft?), although I highly doubt it, or if the 590A1 just doesn't take well to dry firing. Either way, I reckon I'll make or buy some snap caps that hopefully will alleviate the problem.

That's my story and good on Mossberg for fixing something that I did.
 
If OFM felt it was your fault they most likely would not have fixed it.

Did they say specifically not to dry fire it?

This is interesting to me as someone who does a fair amount of dry firing with my various firearms

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No, they did not. In fact, the only thing that came back with the gun was an invoice/work order indicating that the bolt assembly had been replaced. I deduced the rest from remembering seeing the flat, shiny spot on the firing pin and, most importantly, the firing pin being backed out of the bolt. Once those two things dawned on me, I did the online research on how the firing pin is retained and what the internals look like during function and voila', the answer in short.

Once again, I don't blame Mossberg and credit them for the speedy turn around. Even if they say it's perfectly fine to dry fire it, I think I'll play it safe with snap caps or practice rounds to avoid any future problems. And for the record, I've never had this issue with my 870s or Ithacas or pretty much any other modern firearm that I would carry but, it's no big deal to use practice/snap cap rounds.
 
Hi Kilrain
Many thanks for the update. I don't think it's the cause of the issue when I've experienced it, but all knowledge is grist to the mill!
Again, my thanks for the information.
All the best.
 
I think I have finally gotten to the bottom of this issue. A couple of years ago a local gunsmith tweaked my 590 as I was having problems with it - among other things he milled a little metal off the back of the bolt and off the back of the bolt slide [at the point where the slide would hit the frame at the end of its rearward travel]. Over a period of use I think the constant slamming back has removed more metal from the back of the bolt slide, to the point where the firing pin "just" makes contact with the safety block on each cycle. The safety block then moves fractionally backwards, to the point where the safety slips far enough to stop the trigger from operating. I have compared the 590 bolt slide with the identical piece from my 500, and sure enough the 590 is fractionally shorter. I have swapped the 500 bolt slide into the 590 and will take it to the range for an extensive test in 2 weeks time, and I am hopeful that this will've resolved what has been an extremely niggling issue. [I don't know, but would hazard a guess that the bolt slide is hardened at the point where it impacts the frame, and that milling some of the metal away had removed this hardening, such that it has worn a little over the last 30 months].
 
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