Newly joined MossbergOwners.com, but read many of the posts here and on other sites. I've read extensively on recommendations for HD buckshot, but I'm interested if anyone has had or knows someone who has had HD/Law Enforcement/Military experience using buckshot other than 00 in an actual deadly force encounter? I load my HD 590A1 with a mix of #4 and 00, but just bought today some #1 and 000 which I plan on trying out on the range this weekend, but shooting paper targets is nothing like the real thing. If anyone can share some insight I'd be grateful.
Experiences with buckshot
- Thread starter bkmoss
- Start date
Good question. Just so you know, it is an unwritten (and generally followed) rule that military/police personnel who have taken anothers life will not openly discuss it on public internet forums.
I can tell you this with some degree of authority, having spent a great deal of my adult life in both active duty military (Regular Army) and police service.
I can tell you this with some degree of authority, having spent a great deal of my adult life in both active duty military (Regular Army) and police service.
I figured that might be an impedement to my getting replies and its perfectly understandable, but I read on this foum, I think of the 590 product reviews someone describing using his shotgun in combat ( with slugs) so I figured it was worth a shot. Its just that reading lab reports on ballistic gelatin and everyone's opinion on the significance of those lab tests I would think have so much less value than hearing from someone who had to use it in real life. I'm definately not looking to put anyone on the spot or cause discomfort to others.
That's a good perspective to keep. Very understandable and mature of you.
I'll add that, in my experiences, the use of 1-oz Foster or Brenneke slugs was vastly more effective than anything else I have witnessed, whether it was handgun ammo or buckshot or M4 5.56mm (unless the 5.56mm was a cranial shot).
So derive from this what you will, but there is little defference between good 00 buck and good #1 buck. And, more importantly, no buck load can equal a slug load placed within the margins.
I'll add that, in my experiences, the use of 1-oz Foster or Brenneke slugs was vastly more effective than anything else I have witnessed, whether it was handgun ammo or buckshot or M4 5.56mm (unless the 5.56mm was a cranial shot).
So derive from this what you will, but there is little defference between good 00 buck and good #1 buck. And, more importantly, no buck load can equal a slug load placed within the margins.
I too had a law enforcement background, though my only firearms experience was in training ( thankfully). Slugs wouldn't work in my situation. It's only 5 yards from my bedroom door to the front door and then about the same distance from there to my neighbor's kitchen wall/ window. And for once I like my neighbors.
Well, if I might be allowed to comment on your close-range situation...
At five yards, whatever shotgun ammo choice (brand/shot size/cost) you make will have basically the same pattern: one ragged hole thru the wall if you miss. One ounce or 1-1/4 ounce going 1300-fps is just that, a big hunk of lead. How fast it decellerates is the big question.
You might ask the apartment manager who the building contractor was (in a roundabout way). Or talk with the fire department or building code inspector. The reason I mention this is that you can find out whether your state building codes and local ordinances require apartment dwellings with adjacent apartments to follow certain construction requirements.
Where I live, the walls between apartments must have TWO layers of sheetrock on BOTH sides of the wall studs in order to slow the spread of fire.
That means that a slug will still go thru those four layers, but some #2 or #BB copper plated shot will likely dissipate more readily.
To be candid, a low-recoil slug really doesn't have a lot of steam left after going thru four pieces of gypsum board.
But it's still going to be flying into the adjacent apartment in all liklihood. What room(s) are on the opposite side of your apartment walls?
At five yards, whatever shotgun ammo choice (brand/shot size/cost) you make will have basically the same pattern: one ragged hole thru the wall if you miss. One ounce or 1-1/4 ounce going 1300-fps is just that, a big hunk of lead. How fast it decellerates is the big question.
You might ask the apartment manager who the building contractor was (in a roundabout way). Or talk with the fire department or building code inspector. The reason I mention this is that you can find out whether your state building codes and local ordinances require apartment dwellings with adjacent apartments to follow certain construction requirements.
Where I live, the walls between apartments must have TWO layers of sheetrock on BOTH sides of the wall studs in order to slow the spread of fire.
That means that a slug will still go thru those four layers, but some #2 or #BB copper plated shot will likely dissipate more readily.
To be candid, a low-recoil slug really doesn't have a lot of steam left after going thru four pieces of gypsum board.
But it's still going to be flying into the adjacent apartment in all liklihood. What room(s) are on the opposite side of your apartment walls?
We live on the bottom floor of an old ( Pre-1920s) house, so walls and ceilings are thin. We don't have kids to worry about, just two cats and our landlord lives upstairs. He too has a shotgun for self-defense and has no problem with me having one as long as the barrel is not pointed up if I shoot. But getting to your question I'm really not sure of the building materials, but is thin. We don't have kids, just 2 cats so as long as I know where my wife is I'm not worried about friendly casualties in my house, as much as strays hitting the neighbor through the glass on the front door. Your right about those huge holes #4 and 00 put in targets at 5 yards though. I assume for the majority of situations at such close ranges any buckshot would be effective. It sure impressed me the first I saw it after shooting on the range with buckshot! By the way, I really appreciate your being willing to discuss the topic with me.
JSDinTexas
.270 WIN
I will stick my neck out here - based on my limited experience with shotguns, I would suggest that any load of buckshot from #4 to 00 and any slug, at close range (0 to 10 yds), is going to cause a great deal of damage in whatever it hits. I stick with 00 buck instead of slugs because I figure nine .32 balls will be more apt to create the damage I want - and I speak here of 'stopping the threat'.
I literally have just returned from the range where I had a chance to try some harder to find types, #1 and 000. I was really impressed with the results of both. I plan on loading a mix of #1 and 00 . I figure at .30 and .33 they should adequately do the job. I was impressed with the spread of 000 at what I consider realistic ranges for home defense (5, 10, and 15 yards) but am concerned about possible over penetration ( anyone have thoughts on 000?) I do have one box left which I will try to refrain from using on the range in case downtown Sacramento gets overrun by grizzly bears or rabid rhinos.
Heres my take on over penetration.
Anything powerful enough for KO punch, will likely penetrate through more than most of us are comfortable with. This is why I prefer something like the Federal LE that didnt produce a large or wide pattern. Every pellet on target means it has to be carefully aimed.
I otherwise have absolutely zero to offer on the 000 and #1, nothing I can add. I havent used either of those.
One of the reasons I opt for the 00 is because its more common and more cost efficient.
Anything powerful enough for KO punch, will likely penetrate through more than most of us are comfortable with. This is why I prefer something like the Federal LE that didnt produce a large or wide pattern. Every pellet on target means it has to be carefully aimed.
I otherwise have absolutely zero to offer on the 000 and #1, nothing I can add. I havent used either of those.
One of the reasons I opt for the 00 is because its more common and more cost efficient.
I picked up some Federal Personal Defense 00a couple of days ago, tried a box on the range today and as soon as I could went to another store a ordered some more. Very impressive patterns and not much recoil wise.
I figure some over penetration is likely to occur if I had to shoot in the house and that's the price of protecting myself and my wife. I just want to minimize it as much as possible.
As far as aimed shots, I really like the GRS on my 590 as versus the bead sights on my 500, which is now my trap gun.
Hopefully this discussion will remain just academic for me and everyone else on the forum. It pays to think ahead though.
I figure some over penetration is likely to occur if I had to shoot in the house and that's the price of protecting myself and my wife. I just want to minimize it as much as possible.
As far as aimed shots, I really like the GRS on my 590 as versus the bead sights on my 500, which is now my trap gun.
Hopefully this discussion will remain just academic for me and everyone else on the forum. It pays to think ahead though.