Inert Ammo

[John A.]

My replies in black

I believe that you are short changing yourself and anyone you are protecting with your firearms by not practicing.

I didn't say no one shouldn't practice. On the contrary, practice is good.

But I do it with live bullets, not play ones.

When I chamber a round and pull the trigger, I expect to hear bang.

I expect the gun to recoil

I expect to see a hole in what I'm shooting at.

Actually shooting the gun is a lot more (practice) for me than pretending to shoot it.

Have you heard of the term muscle memory?

Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems.

Yes, I have heard of muscle memory. See my reply above. I get my muscle memory from actually using the gun. I still think it's better that way. You're only getting a portion of that experience by pulling the trigger on a dummy round.

There is a very big difference between clearing a malfunction on the range and under the stress of a tactical/HD situation. BTW, this does NOT mean you take safety for granted.

I disagree for the fact that shooting in and of it's self is not "training". Training has specific goals of improving one's capability, capacity, and performance.

I agree that there is a very big difference when clearing a malfunction under stress.

But I also don't understand how clearing a fake bullet while watching Archie Bunker on Tuesday night is going to make me less stressed Saturday morning if I had a malfunctioning gun if it was really happening to me.

Again, I get a lot of time behind my guns, and I still feel that live fire is the best method but if something else works better for you to feel more confident and be more proficient with your gun, that's all that's important.

No toes stepped on. That's why there is this forum, to share info and debate topics.

I disagree that dry firing creates complacency. Dry firing is an exceptional training tool. As a former competitive pistol shooter, I dry fired everyday and shot live every weekend. I NEVER have had an AD while doing this. This is why I'm buying inert rounds. I WILL NOT train in the house with live ammo. Following safety protocols to the letter is important. It's when your complacent with safety that accidents happen!

Obviously these are my personal opinions, and hope I did not "step on your toes" either.

Nope, you didn't hurt my feelings. As I said above, what works for me may not work for others. I think we both will agree the important thing is practice, practice, practice and if you're going to trust your life to a gun, the important thing is to know it intimately. Even if we both reach that point from different ways

 

[Kodiak]

My replies in black

I believe that you are short changing yourself and anyone you are protecting with your firearms by not practicing.

I didn't say no one shouldn't practice. On the contrary, practice is good.

But I do it with live bullets, not play ones. When I pull the trigger, I expect to hear bang.

I see your dislike for inert rounds in training/practice. Just as firearms are not toys, neither are inert rounds.

I expect the gun to recoil

I expect to see a hole in what I'm shooting at.

Actually shooting the gun is a lot more (practice) for me than pretending to shoot it.

I believe that I misunderstood a statement in your first post.

I will not practice with a live or dummy round...

Have you heard of the term muscle memory?

Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems.

Yes, I have heard of muscle memory. See my reply above. I get my muscle memory from actually using the gun. I still think it's better that way. You're only getting a portion of that experience by pulling the trigger on a dummy round.

There is a very big difference between clearing a malfunction on the range and under the stress of a tactical/HD situation. BTW, this does NOT mean you take safety for granted.

I disagree for the fact that shooting in and of it's self is not "training". Training has specific goals of improving one's capability, capacity, and performance.

I agree that there is a very big difference when clearing a malfunction under stress.

But I also don't understand how clearing a fake bullet while watching Archie Bunker on Tuesday night is going to make me less stressed Saturday morning if I had a malfunctioning gun if it was really happening to me.

Please don't belittle the training that you don't care for. If someone were to do the above then it really wouldn't be training, would it? You say you don't understand how. It goes back to being familiar with your weapon and muscle memory of the necessary actions to efficiently operate and clear malfunctions.

Again, I get a lot of time behind my guns, and I still feel that live fire is the best method but if something else works better for you to feel more confident with your gun, that's all that's important.

As my range time is limited and ammo is expensive, I find that a mix of both is my best option to stay proficient with my firearms. It is also easier and safer to perform new drills and tactics with inert ammo than with live ammo. Taking away the recoil can help with identifying why some drill or tactic is not being performed correctly. One good example is people that try to compensate for recoil. They hit an inert round mixed in with live rounds and their weapon jerks down. Once that is found then it can be corrected.

No toes stepped on. That's why there is this forum, to share info and debate topics.

I disagree that dry firing creates complacency. Dry firing is an exceptional training tool. As a former competitive pistol shooter, I dry fired everyday and shot live every weekend. I NEVER have had an AD while doing this. This is why I'm buying inert rounds. I WILL NOT train in the house with live ammo. Following safety protocols to the letter is important. It's when your complacent with safety that accidents happen!

Obviously these are my personal opinions, and hope I did not "step on your toes" either.

Nope, you didn't hurt my feelings. As I said above, what works for me may not work for others. I think we both will agree the important thing is practice, practice, practice.
I agree, we just differ on our methods and tools.

 

[Kodiak]

Got them today! I cycled them a few times and had no issues. They appear durable, but only time will tell. I also found out my local indoor range will only let you shoot slugs, so I picked up some Winchester Super X 2 3/4" 1 oz slugs at Walmart too.

While the insert looks yellow it is actually orange. I'm thinking of adding bird shot to the hollow to make them more of the weight of a "standard" shot shell.

Slightly shorter than my 00 buckshot Remington and Winchester shot shells.

 

[BigFatGuy]

I just purchased these dummy rounds for my 590: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=3187 ... -3-4-per-5

They appear to be made from already-fired shells (the primers are dented), so I intend to run them through my gun at the range a few times to verify that they are, indeed, inert (I don't trust anyone to be perfect), and then use them for practice at home.

The way I see it, if I train myself to use the action release all the time with dummy rounds, then I'm training myself to not pull the trigger when the time comes... and that's bad IMHO.

I look at it like a martial arts training: you first verify that everyone has fake knives, and then you train as if everyone had real knives and intended to use them fully. Lock up the real ammo, have a second person verify that there is no real ammo around, and then train as you need to train. (IMHO)