i notice in peoples pictures of their awesome guns they either have the ends up, or ends down. what is the significance to either up or down? safety? ease of action? or something that is just totally a personal preference?
shells up? or shells down?
- Thread starter ripjack13
- Start date
For me, it depends on two things:
1. Place I'm carrying my shotgun shells
2. Security of the device used to carry the shells
For example, when hunting, I wear a coat or vest that has shotshell loops that are below the level of my shotgun when reloading. Since I want the shells to move toward the shotgun when I pull them to load the brass end is up. On the other hand, shells in a shell holder mounted to the side of the receiver whould have the brass end down as I would be pulling them down, under the gun, to load them.
Example 1: Hunting Coat/Vest
Example 2: Shotshell Side Saddle
Make sense?
Now, a "tactical" vest that has the loops mounted high on the chest is up for debate in my mind. If the loops are strong enough to hold the shells securely I would most likely mount the shells with the brass end down. If I wasn't confident in the strength of the loops, I would mount the brass end up in order to ensure that my ammo didn't drop out during virgorous movement.
Example 3: Tactical Vest with High Chest Loops
1. Place I'm carrying my shotgun shells
2. Security of the device used to carry the shells
For example, when hunting, I wear a coat or vest that has shotshell loops that are below the level of my shotgun when reloading. Since I want the shells to move toward the shotgun when I pull them to load the brass end is up. On the other hand, shells in a shell holder mounted to the side of the receiver whould have the brass end down as I would be pulling them down, under the gun, to load them.
Example 1: Hunting Coat/Vest
Example 2: Shotshell Side Saddle
Make sense?
Now, a "tactical" vest that has the loops mounted high on the chest is up for debate in my mind. If the loops are strong enough to hold the shells securely I would most likely mount the shells with the brass end down. If I wasn't confident in the strength of the loops, I would mount the brass end up in order to ensure that my ammo didn't drop out during virgorous movement.
Example 3: Tactical Vest with High Chest Loops
Something else folks will mention on this topic,
in a shell holder or side saddle, I have heard said that the side saddle will eventually "wear" to the point shells can slip out, so load them with the brass up. I have seen in some video, while the gun is being fired, the shells will fall out.
In my leather cuffs, I load the brass to the bottom and have yet to have shells fall out under recoil. I often leave shells in the cuff while its not in use. I prefer them to be brass down for the purpose of loading or reloading from the cuff. It makes more sense to pull down and slide my hand forward to the receiver.
Heres an example.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NipXbUyyXdY[/youtube]
This touches on Mud's point about trusting or not the stregnth of the loops, like whats on the vest, only in this case its the side saddle.
OH! And check out the pic in my sig below! -----vvvvv
in a shell holder or side saddle, I have heard said that the side saddle will eventually "wear" to the point shells can slip out, so load them with the brass up. I have seen in some video, while the gun is being fired, the shells will fall out.
In my leather cuffs, I load the brass to the bottom and have yet to have shells fall out under recoil. I often leave shells in the cuff while its not in use. I prefer them to be brass down for the purpose of loading or reloading from the cuff. It makes more sense to pull down and slide my hand forward to the receiver.
Heres an example.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NipXbUyyXdY[/youtube]
This touches on Mud's point about trusting or not the stregnth of the loops, like whats on the vest, only in this case its the side saddle.
OH! And check out the pic in my sig below! -----vvvvv
Rossignol said:
May I make a suggestion? Try doing your reloads with the butt of the weapon still against your shoulder and your barrel pointed downrange. Keep your eyes forward for any potential targets while doing your reload purely by feel. Hold the weapon with your shooting hand, finger off the trigger, and reload with your off hand.
I read a story about one of our servicemen - I think it was a Marine in Afghanistan - who ended up getting shot because he didn't reload in this fashion. I'll see if I can find it.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. You may or may not need to tuck the butt under your arm with a short-barrel shotgun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1TTr25YYuw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1TTr25YYuw
very nice. very informative. i even looked up what "weak handed" means. thanx again.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykFye8DZhQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
^^^^^^
side note: in this video i found looking for the definition of weak handed it looks like the guy with the shotty had a few jambs while shooting and he had to look at the gun to see what was wrong and had to be directed to "keep it down range" is that correct that he had to look? i only ask because the video mudinyeri posted the guy in that one ( at 5:14) said if you're familiar with your gun you would just cycle it to get out the spent shell / misfired one and just keep going. i guess that's only in competition though?
(and i love the youtube option to post em up)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SykFye8DZhQ&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
^^^^^^
side note: in this video i found looking for the definition of weak handed it looks like the guy with the shotty had a few jambs while shooting and he had to look at the gun to see what was wrong and had to be directed to "keep it down range" is that correct that he had to look? i only ask because the video mudinyeri posted the guy in that one ( at 5:14) said if you're familiar with your gun you would just cycle it to get out the spent shell / misfired one and just keep going. i guess that's only in competition though?
(and i love the youtube option to post em up)
ripjack, if you're familiar with your gun, certainly your first "fix" should be pretty much automatic - no eyes on the weapon. I practice fix drills with dummy rounds in virtually all of my weapons. Generally speaking, you would also have a second fix that could be performed "eyes-off". If both Fix 1 and Fix 2 are unsuccessful, you're probably going to go to your back-up weapon in a combat situation. If you're just plinking at the range, looking at the weapon is certainly acceptable.
By the way, the term is generally "weak hand" or "off hand". You may perform a function with your weak hand (off hand), but I don't know that I've ever heard a "professional" instructor tell someone to perform a function "weak handed".
For those not familiar, the opposite terms are usually "strong hand" or "shooting hand".
By the way, the term is generally "weak hand" or "off hand". You may perform a function with your weak hand (off hand), but I don't know that I've ever heard a "professional" instructor tell someone to perform a function "weak handed".
For those not familiar, the opposite terms are usually "strong hand" or "shooting hand".
Pretty good video, thanks!
The means by which extra shells are carried will help define how they are loaded for certain. I need to make another shell cuff for the Hogue short LOP I have on there now, but I can definitely see the importance of keeping the firearm leveled and at the very least looking over the barrel.
I have a couple things to test out so I'll be "relearning" some of my motions anyway, so its something I'll try out!
On a similar note, while we're disccussing reloading, the shells being up or down will also affect the how of the reload, the motions used to accomplish the reload.
The means by which extra shells are carried will help define how they are loaded for certain. I need to make another shell cuff for the Hogue short LOP I have on there now, but I can definitely see the importance of keeping the firearm leveled and at the very least looking over the barrel.
I have a couple things to test out so I'll be "relearning" some of my motions anyway, so its something I'll try out!
On a similar note, while we're disccussing reloading, the shells being up or down will also affect the how of the reload, the motions used to accomplish the reload.
JSDinTexas
.270 WIN
I have a sidesaddle on the adj stock that came as part of the gun and first loaded it brass up. I found the brass was catching my attention in my peripheral vision being shiny and by my cheek. I also decided the best way to load was into the tube or chamber with my right hand (strong side). So I changed them to brass down and that way they don't stick up above the saddle, so that eliminated the shiny attraction, and I pull them from the bottom and load holding the forearm and not coming off my shoulder too much; so far it all seems fairly good.
But with my new 9-shot 590a1 that I'm still waiting for delivery on, I may not need to reload
But with my new 9-shot 590a1 that I'm still waiting for delivery on, I may not need to reload
oli700 said:
No, not a shotgun. I believe the weapon in the story was an M4. However, the principle is the same.
I'll see if I can find some time to make a video with my SPX. I think I have a butt cuff laying around somewhere - nothing as fancy as Rossignol's, but it should be functional for the sake of a video.
OK, here's the link: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php ... wheelchair
I'm going to post the whole thing somewhere appropriate on this site not only because it was hard to find, but because it's a very insightful piece that every shooter should read.
I'm going to post the whole thing somewhere appropriate on this site not only because it was hard to find, but because it's a very insightful piece that every shooter should read.
Mudinyeri said:
yeah i'm not intimately knowledgeable of my gun yet...but i have broke it down and reassembled it once already. just so knew how to do it. i bought a couple of books for it. and i'll need to get some dummy rounds for it as well to practice with em. any suggestions on good 12g dummies?
25 rounds for a little over $14.00: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/34633-5.html
Fronty Owner
.270 WIN
a little late to the discussion, but I carry brass down on my butt cuff when bird hunting. I only pull from there when the birds are flying and I need to reload. As others said, keeps your eyes on the target and you feel for the rest. I can pull a round out with my weak side without blocking my view.
When I get a chance, I reload the butt cuff from my belt that is brass up.
When I get a chance, I reload the butt cuff from my belt that is brass up.