Wht if they can't get it up...

[OhioArcher]

after they take it down? We've seen how well the government healthcare system is working. In flipping Nov of all times...better stock up firewood and food. :shock:

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/08/2 ... overnment/

Power grid vulnerabilities are finally garnering some attention by government officials.

An electrical grid joint drill simulation is being planned in the United States, Canada and Mexico. Thousands of utility workers, FBI agents, anti-terrorism experts, governmental agencies, and more than 150 private businesses are involved in the November power grid drill.

The downed power grid simulation will reportedly focus on both physical and cyber attacks. The antiquated electrical system in the United States has been one of the most neglected pieces of integral infrastructure.

 

[John A.]

Having professional experience as a lineman for nearly 15 years, there are places where it's neglected and run down. It is usually less expensive to just wait until you have an outage and repair it when it happens than to pay contractors to keep it all cut back for preventive maintenance. Admittedly, I have seen that play out more than a thousand times and while working for different companies so I do know that it more common than not as an industry practice.

And then there are even engineers who do not understand exactly how it works. Ie., reference the NorthEastern blackout that originated in rural Ohio a few years ago). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

Just FWIW, I do not think they are actually going to de-energize anything in the drill.

Or at least they should not be. Too many vital things could be effected. People on life support, hospitals, 911 call centers, water plants, etc.

Granted that any place that has important function should have a backup generator, but still.

The grid is a lot more vulnerable than people think. And our infrastructure relies far too heavily on power. God help us all when we can't get Jerry Springer or access Facebook. :roll:

 

[OhioArcher]

Duke energy adopted the "wait then repair" attitude. Trees wrapped around power lines, etc. Then Ike came thru. The damage was devastating. We were down for 6 days...many others for 2 weeks...all because Duke didn't think it prudent to manage the trees. The they wanted a rate increase to cover their losses due to their decisions.

They have been clearing trees for the past couple years now. Kinda went overboard in some areas because there is not a branch left on some of them.

How would you test the capabilities of the federal and state agencies in the event of losing the power grid if you don't actually take it down? How will you know IF you can get it back up and running? Simulations leave out a lot of potential pitfalls.

 

[John A.]

Maintenance is very low priority on their list.

There may be some small localized exceptions, but they don't like to pay tree cutters. That takes away from the companies bottom dollar and end of year bonuses for the regional and local supervisors and such. So as you see, they are motivated to actually NOT spend money on preventive maintenance.

While trees falling or contacting the lines is one of the primary causes of power outages, there are also a lot of other things that come into play.

Transmission lines sagging and swinging too close to each other, poles leaning putting too much tension on down guys, there are some poles that are almost certainly rotted just below the ground level because they've been there for 60 years or more, etc. I have seen these things with my own eyes.

I even had a good friend who was wrecking out some lines at a new road construction right of way and the pole was rotted about 4 inches under the dirt and you couldn't tell it when he sounded the pole with a hammer or by looking at it prior to climbing the pole, but when he cut the strand, that was all that was holding it up and it fell with/on him and broke his back, knocked him out, etc.

Just think of Murphy. If it can go wrong, it's probably out there laying in wait as you read this.

And that's not even taking onto consideration the amount of load their subscribers are putting on the plant at any given time that the company really has no control over. That is what ultimately caused the big blackout in the NE and Canada.

They can write it down and blame it on a small company in Ohio until they are blue in the face, but what ultimately caused the domino effect was consumer demand was more than they could produce/distribute and that shouldn't take an engineering degree to figure out.

Our power grid is in as much need of being redone as is our bridge infrastructure.

But I do not foresee either truly ever happening. The hayday is behind us and is going down hill every day that the issues are not addressed.

General maintenance and upkeep is just a band-aid. In all reality, there are many area's that are truly in need of entire rebuild from end to end.

 

[GunnyGene]

I don't think this is so much about the grid itself, but rather how the Federal, State, etc. agencies like DHS, FEMA, FBI, etc. coordinate and respond to a pretend large grid breakdown. I would not be surprised to see some major rollouts of DHS equipment and personnel for example.

 

[John A.]

Yeah, like the FBI and DHS is going to do anything but get in the way repairing any major outage if one were to take place.

That's the last thing a line crew needs is people who knows asbolutely nothing about what you're doing under foot walking around with their handy dandy notebooks and asking questions that has nothing to do with fixing the problem.

Typical government thinking. But if it makes them sleep better :roll: .

I guess I can think of worse ways to spend all that new money I suppose.

 

[OhioArcher]

Maintenance is very low priority on their list.


Transmission lines sagging and swinging too close to each other, poles leaning putting too much tension on down guys, there are some poles that are almost certainly rotted just below the ground level because they've been there for 60 years or more, etc. I have seen these things with my own eyes.

I know what you are talking about. There is a pole at the end of our street that broke. They planted a new pole next to it but instead of transferring all the lines over they only moved a couple. Then they TIED THE OLD POLE to the new one with 3/4" rope. It is still there 2 years later.