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Gun Ownership in the U.K.

nitesite

nitesite

Average Guy
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Re: How did you hear about or find MossbergOwners.com??

Headhunter said:
Hi

I am across the pond from most of you, living in Devon in the United Kingdom. I am a member of the UKPSA and own a Mossberg 590 and a Mossberg 500. Searching around the net for background information on google took me to a You Tube video that was from http://www.mossbergowners.com, so I typed that in as a link to see where it would lead, and it brought me here. You have a nice looking site, and I am looking forward to trawling through the different threads!
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That is magnificent! You not only found the site but wanted to become a member of this gun board! Very glad to have you, Sir. I'm fascinated to know more about your firearms laws regarding the ownership of shotguns. I understand that overall private gun ownership is strictly regulated and is terribly cumbersome to acquire and store just about all firearms.

I have a friend in Belgium who does not have the oppressive restrictions that it seems you Brits have to endure. If you're willing, I would be really interested to see you start a new thread about your club shoots and the guns you and other members have legally acquired and how ownership and posession are two vastly different matters entirely.
 
Re: How did you hear about or find MossbergOwners.com??

^^ Indeed! That would be interesting ^^
 
Re: How did you hear about or find MossbergOwners.com??

Glad to have you with us Headhunter. (Nitesight & OldMan + 1!) When I was in Perth Australia I stopped in at a gun shop and I was under the impression that you had to be a land owner to own a firearm. Wht is it like on your side of the pond?
 
Re: How did you hear about or find MossbergOwners.com??

Good evening gentlemen [and ladies]
I am flattered at the amount of interest that I seem to have generated, and please feel free to split this reply off into a separate, more suitable, thread.
The United Kingdom is a little fragmented at present. Prior to 1988, as members of shooting clubs, we were able to possess and shoot with most semi-automatic firearms [rifles, pistols and shotguns]. We then suffered a shooting atrocity in a town called Hungerford, which lead to a ban on semi-automatic rifles [excepting .22 calibre]. Then, in 1996, we had another atrocity involving school children, in a town called Dunblane [in Scotland]. That lead to a ban on handguns. To a degree this has been circumvented in that the law regards a 24" long firearm as not being a pistol. Thus we can own long-barreled .22 semi-auto "pistols" and long barrelled revolvers in any centre fire calibre [basically a 12" barrel and a wire stock attached to the grip, making overall length 24"]. There are a number of 1911 clones with long barrels in .22 calibre that have proven quite popular, and any number of .38/.357 and .44 long barrelled revolvers. Turning to long arms, we are allowed to possess and shoot .22 rifles [the Ruger 10/22 n many customised forms is very popular], underlever carbines [Marlin 1895 and similar], fullbore bolt action and straight pull rifles [AR15 in .223 straight pull, Lee-Enfield 7.62 or .303, etc], and shotguns [pump and semi].
NB If I lived in Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands I would be able to still own and shoot handguns - the handgun ban applies only to mainland UK. [Prior to 1997 I owned a Glock 22 and a Norinco .45ACP. At various times I have also owned a H & K P9S in .45ACP and a S & W 4576 in .45ACP].
The shotgun rules on licences are further complicated. A "shotgun" licence [SGC] can be applied for by any upstanding citizen, and the onus is on the Police to show why they should not have it. This entitles the owner to buy an unrestricted number of shotguns, but limited to 3 rounds capacity. A "Firearm" certificate [FAC] can be obtained if you can show the Police good reason for requiring it - this usually means being a member of a shooting club. When applying for an FAC you must justify each individual firearm that you wish to acquire, and if you own one and want to change it for a different one you have to dispose of the existing one first and then apply to the Police to have your FAC varied to allow purchase of a new one.
In my own case I own two Mossbergs [a 500 slugster and a 590 with the barrel extended to 24" to comply with UK legislation] - as they are held on FAC I can have the 8 round mag versions - I also have a Marlin 1895 [.38/.357], a Ruger 10/22 [fitted with Choate pistol grip stock] and a black powder revolver [the one type of handgun that we are permitted in main land UK]. I compete at Club and national level in Practical Shotgun, and at Club level participate in Practical .22 rifle and Practical underlever. Our range in North Devon has approval for calibres including rifled slug, so we are able to shoot shotgun stages with slug as well as bird and buckshot.
I'm sorry if I have rambled at length - you can see my Club's [rather basic, due to security issues] website at www.tworivers.org.uk, and information about UK practical shooting at www.ukpsa.co.uk
Thanks for your interest - if there is anything specific that you would like to know about please don't hesitate to PM me [my name is Steve] and I will be happy to oblige if I can.
Your site is very interesting, and in the few dealings that I have had with Mossberg themselves they have always been extremely helpful and courteous [when I could not obtain a couple of small spare for my 500 they sent some free of charge - excellent service]. I regularly buy from Brownells on your side of the pond [apologies if it is gauche to name drop - I do so merely to indicate how I obtain some of my kit].
I had better close now, but will endeavour to write more in the coming weeks, if anyone is interested?
Cheers
Steve
 
Great idea Lazy!!!

Steve, Thanks! I enjoyed the read and while I knew firearm ownership is heavily restricted, I had know idea some of the specifics. It sounds as if it will make your head spin!

No worries mentioning Brownells, we mention suppliers as much as we're able to let people know where we are finding good deals and good service... or not.

I'm glad to hear Mossberg has been able to take care of you!
 
It is always a pleasure to meet another firearm afficiando, regardless of where they live.

You will find that most of us are also passionate about our collections.

And I have heard of the atrocites at Hungerford and Dunblane. As unfortunate as it was, I do not feel they should've restricted everyone under their rule based on the actions of a few. I have always felt that was unfair to the majority who neither are violent, nor inclined to be.

Especially when so many were begging for weapons during WWII at the threat of German invasion.

Though we too have numerous restrictions that I feel are medieval.

We are not allowed to possess a muffler for our guns unless we pay a $200 tax and forego fingerprinting and background checks through the FBI (our main law enforcement agency).

And we too have size limits that our rifles and shotguns must adhere to, although they are minimum lengths so they're not easily concealable.

It is nice to meet you headhunter.
 
John A. said:
We are not allowed to possess a muffler for our guns unless we pay a $200 tax and forego fingerprinting and background checks through the FBI (our main law enforcement agency).
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That is interesting. Here in the UK it is not uncommon for members of clubs to possess moderators for their .223 rifles, on the grounds of health and safety! I.e. the Police would not accept wanting to buy a moderator on a whim, but if you explain that you are wanting it out of concern for fellow range users then that is acceptable. Those who hunt bunnies and foxes also often have moderators for their rifles. There is no separate fee, but a moderator is treated as another firearm. Eg if I have authority to possess two pump shotguns, a .38 underlever and a .22, and possess the firearms to match that authority, then I need a new variation to be authorised to purchase say a moderator for the .22. This entails completing paperwork and paying a £26 fee.
Our Firearms licences are renewable every five years, at a cost of GBP 50. The Police require independent statements from a Club official and a person of repute who knows you but is not a shooter, to confirm that you are of good character and can be trusted with firearms. They can also check medical references.
In passing - the chap who committed the Dunblane atrocity [Thomas Hamilton] - was refused renewal of his FAC by the officer who did his inspection, but this was over-ruled by a senior officer who was Hamilton's friend.
Similarly none of the local clubs would accept the Hungerford murderer as a member as they all regarded him as a loose cannon, so he joined a club miles away in order to obtain his certificate [and shot most of his victims with a Browning pistol so the politicians banned semi auto rifles!].
Cheers for now
Steve
 
Oh wow!! This was so interesting to read! I don't even see how one could keep up with all of those laws and restrictions. Thanks so much for sharing the information, I didn't find you rambling at all, in fact I was wanting to read more!
 
Thankfully, in most locations here, we can own any firearm we like, and as many as we like, as long as we do not have a criminal history (federal offenses), aren't mentally unstable, do not use illicit drugs, have not had a dishonorable discharge from the military, etc.

I think that most people feel those are acceptable restrictions. Thankfully, our Bill of Rights gaurantee's our freedom to own weapons. Although many politicians try to whittle away at those rights at every opportunity available to them.

As I mentioned earlier, most locations here do not have a gun registry and we can own any semi auto gun we like, although as I mentioned earlier, rifles must have a barrel longer than 16 inches and shotguns must have a barrel at least 18 inches long.

Fully automatic weapons, and moderators and short barrel weapons are highly regulated, although available to citizens who can pay the tax and usually exhorbitant cost of the weapon/item if they do not have a criminal history. They also have special storage and transport restrictions as well.
 
John A. said:
shotguns must have a barrel at least 18 inches long.
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Another little wrinkle, pertinent to my owning of a Mossberg 590 - the minimum barrel length for a shotgun in the UK is 24". Any firearm with a shorter barrel cannot be legally owned and is put into what is referred to as Section 5 - covers things like flame throwers and rocket launchers as well I believe.

Interestingly, it is illegal to convert a Section 5 firearm to a Section 1 [Firearm certificate] or Section 2 [Shotgun certificate] firearm. So I could not, for example, buy a standard Mossberg 590 with 20" barrel and bring it into the UK. The way that they are marketed over here is that the importer brings in the 590 action [which is fine, as it falls into section 1 or 2 depending on magazine capacity], and then separately obtains barrels and welds a 4.5" section onto the end. These barrels are then proofed at one of the UK proof houses, and then are matched up to a 590 action to create a legal section 1 or section 2 firearm. Because of that it will be interesting to see whether Mossberg want to really get into the UK market and compete with the Benelli's and Beretta's by manufacturing a 24" factory barrel for the 590. My other Mossberg, an elderly 500 Slugster, did not have this problem as it came with a 24" barrel fitted with rifle sights. [The 590 I have just retro-fitted ghost ring sights to, and boy, are they an improvement for Practical Shotgun!].
 
Another aspect is that of ammunition. There is no limit on the amount of shotgun ammunition that may be purchased, and its acquisition is not recorded on either Firearms or Shotgun certificate. However, certain munitions that have to be used on a range - such as slug, or rifle ammo [.22 or fullbore or pistol calibre] - are restricted. The Firearms Certificate will list the quantity of each specific calibre that may be purchased at any one time, and the maximum quantity that may be held. Thus I can hold 300 rounds of 12ga slug, and buy 250 at a time; I can also hold 1,100 rounds of .22 and buy 1,000, and hold 600 rounds each of .38 and .357 ammunition, and buy 500 of each. The rifle restrictions are sidelined a little in that here in the UK a lot of us reload ammunition. I regularly reload .38 rounds for my Marlin [I use 4.2 grains of Hodgdon Titegroup behind a 158gn TC lead bullet in a .357 case], and no record is kept of how many rounds I reload and fire. The purchase of ammunition is a factor when renewal of certificate comes around, but the Police understand that whilst we have to buy .22 ammo we seldom buy factory pistol or rifle calibre rounds, prefering the accuracy of home loads that have been tuned to our specific firearms.
 
I couldn’t imagine such a suppressed existence. That would cause a straight up revolt here....straight up come and take it revolt. Shame you all have to pay for a couple tragic incidents that the law abiding citizens, lawful gun owners of your country had no part in…..
 
oli700 said:
I couldn’t imagine such a suppressed existence. That would cause a straight up revolt here....straight up come and take it revolt. Shame you all have to pay for a couple tragic incidents that the law abiding citizens, lawful gun owners of your country had no part in…..
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That sums it up, I agree.
 
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