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Goodbye "Ole Green Tip"...

Discussion in 'Ammunition' started by SHOOTER13, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. tattooo

    tattooo .30-06

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    I'm laughing my balls off right now
  2. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    I think they were testing the waters....checking to see how we would react and which how much ferocity.

    While we are celebrating the win, they are analyzing the game footage so they won't make the same mistake next time.
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  3. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Moderator Supporter

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    3,806
    I haven't seen an official response yet.
  4. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    Agree, saw several people trying to gouge on the local gun and ammo pages. It really started to piss me off.
    tattooo likes this.
  5. tattooo

    tattooo .30-06

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    1,283
    Bunch of clowns
  6. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Page 190 ( if you want to see it in Black & White )...

    In addition, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 added to the definition of armor piercing ammunition the following:

    "... a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile."

    Exemptions:
    The following articles are exempted from the definition of armor piercing ammunition.

    5.56 mm (.233) SS 109 and M855 Ammunition, identified by a green coating on the projectile tip.

    U.S. .30-06 M2AP, identified by a black coating on the projectile tip.
  7. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    BREAKING: ATF Will Not Ban Popular M855 AR-15 Ammunition

    In a short statement issued March 10, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives backed away from its proposed ban on the sale and manufacture of the popular M855 round used primarily in AR-15 rifles.

    The ATF proposed a new method for determining which so-called "armor-piercing" ammunition that could be fired from a pistol should be restricted, and said it had received more than 80,000 comments that were "critical of the framework."

    "Although ATF endeavored to create a proposal that reflected a good faith interpretation of the law and balanced the interests of law enforcement, industry, and sportsmen, the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study," the ATF said in a statement. "Accordingly, ATF will not at this time seek to issue a final framework."

    The original proposal which was released last month prompted a strong reaction from the shooting public, with most seeing the move as a way for the Obama Administration to regulate gun ownership through executive action after being stymied by Congress. Major news networks covered the story and the National Rifle Association lobbied hard to keep the regulation at bay.

    The ATF argues that since the M855 round incorporates some steel in its construction and can be fired from an AR-style pistol, it is in violation of the 1986 Law Enforcement Officer Protection Act which bans pistol rounds that can penetrate soft body armor worn by police. Gun owners argued that all rifle ammunition is technically armor-piercing due to its velocity, and that if the ATF could ban M855, it could eventually ban all rifle ammunition.

    The White House sided with the ATF, saying the M855 ban was a "common sense" solution to an emerging threat to law enforcement, but there has so far been no documented case where a police officer was threatened by M855 rounds fired from an AR pistol.

    And after a major backlash in Congress, including a letter to the ATF signed by more than 250 lawmakers and a bill introduced in the House to bar the ATF from any future ammo bans, the gun regulating agency relented. "ATF will process the comments received, further evaluate the issues raised therein, and provide additional open and transparent process (for example, through additional proposals and opportunities for comment) before proceeding with any framework," the ATF said.

    ======================================

    http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/ar...ar-m855-ar-15-ammunition#sthash.JjcTEXq2.dpbs


    ======================================
  8. mingaa

    mingaa Raconteur

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    2,187
    Now I'll go back to American Reloading and see if they will honor the $89/500 purchase I was making BEFORE they were 'out of stock' then FOUND stock the next day at $133/500.

    I left it in the cart - we'll see. Been buying 6.8 cases from them. Maybe I'm good - maybe i need more, we'll see...
  9. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    Let us know. Was still inflated price when i looked yesterday.
  10. tcecil88

    tcecil88 .30-06

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    I am seeing it here for close to .50 cents per round. But that seems about what they want for it anywhere.
  11. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    11,794
    They know this will come around again so they will milk it for as long as they can as people continue to stock up.
  12. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    its the next 22lr guys.....now that the sheep are all aware, this will go out of the truck to peoples cars at 4am in front of the store
  13. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    2,120
    We'll see, caught some flak for my post offering .25 per round. But. Got one guy messging me back asking if ill pick up. He aint but 10 miles away. I might make out like a bandit on this one.
  14. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    My emphasis highlighted in bold and underlined

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/atf-raises-new-concerns-about-ar-15-ammo/article/2561422

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on Thursday raised new concerns about surplus military ammo used in popular AR-15 rifles and pistols just days after pulling back on a proposal to ban the ammo because it could threaten police safety.

    In a Senate Appropriations Committee
    hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

    "Any 5.56 round" is "a challenge for officer safety," he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called "cop killer" rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not criminals.

    His agency's move to ban the 5.56 M855 version was condemned by the National Rifle Association and majorities in the House and Senate and as a result was pulled back though not abandoned. At the hearing Jones said that nearly 90,000 comments on the proposal were received, many negative.

    As a result, he said that the ATF will suspend rewriting the "framework" used to exempt armor piercing ammo from sale or use. "It probably isn't going to happen any time soon," he said. Jones also said, "We are not going to move forward."

    The 5.56 M855 round, he said, is military surplus, typically has a green tip and was used in the M-16. There are several versions of the 5.56. The M855
    carries a bullet that can penetrate police body armor, though shooters often debate that.

    The ATF singled it out for a ban because more AR-15 style pistols that can shoot the ammo are being produced and presumably could be used by criminals in police shootouts. The AR-15 can also shoot the less lethal .223 round, which was not targeted by ATF in the ban proposal.

    Police groups, however, said the pistols are not being used against cops.

    The NRA and some 52 senators said they also feared that the ATF move was an Obama administration bid for gun control targeted at the AR-15.

    Paul Bedard, the Washington Examiner's "Washington Secrets" columnist, can be contacted at
    pbedard@washingtonexaminer.com
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  15. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    9,268
    so make better armor

    its always the classic battle, looks like armor is behind
  16. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    ^ Winner

    Body armor was initially designed around "common" handguns since handguns were (still are) the predominate weapon used because handguns are the easiest firearm to conceal on the person.

    With that said, an AR15 pistol would be anything BUT easily concealable on your person, and therefore negates its' use as such.

    If anyone were to disagree, then I would really like for them to try to prove otherwise.

    Back to my original point. Body armor (Dept. of Justice) standards says that IIIA body armor must stop the following.

    So basically, there are some handgun calibers that will still defeat IIIA armor, and almost any rifle will.

    So if they ban 223 ammunition on the pretense of officer safety, they may as well ban everything, which is ironically the route they seem to be wanting to take, instead of making more stringent requirements for body armor.

    But since when does Washington do anything that would make sense? There is no such thing as "commonsense" when it comes to anything coming out of Washington.
    SHOOTER13 likes this.
  17. LAZY EYED SNIPER

    LAZY EYED SNIPER Overwatch Staff Member Global Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    The armor is out there, but they don't feel like $5,000 per unit is worth the expense.

    Pinnacle Armor's Dragon Skin level III SOV-2000 was proven to stop even 5.56 ss109, 7.62x39 M43, and .30-06 M2 ball all fired from a distance of ten feet. Back in 2006 the female Clinton went out of her way to discredit their ballistics tests by submitting falsified conflicting reports from tests performed by an "independent" third party and then proceeded to have the DOD outright ban its use by troops in theater. It's curious that the same body armor has subsequently been issued to agents of the Secret Service, CIA, DEA, as well as other "elite" agencies and officials...
    SHOOTER13 and John A. like this.
  18. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    14,402
  19. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Racist old man BANNED

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    These fools conveniently ignore the fact that M855 is NOT an AP bullet per the GCA68 and LEOPA definition thereof. So from my reading of it they want to scratch that and make it a "performance based" standard rather than a design/material standard. Allowing this bill to gain any traction at all would be extraordinarily bad.

    Engels has also gone after the 5.7x28 FN round and pistol in the past. He is rated 100% by the Brady bunch, and a solid F from the NRA.
  20. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 Guest

    Four House Democrats have taken the Obama administration’s idea of a regulation to ban a widely used kind of ammunition — one it had to pull back because it was so unpopular — and turned it into legislation.

    Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) introduced the Armor Piercing Bullets Act, which he said would ban the sale of “.223-dervied, 5.56x45mm NATO ‘green tip’ rounds” that are commonly used on the AR-15 rifle. That’s the same ban that the ATF proposed in February, through the adoption of a “framework” that would justify a ban on all bullets that can pierce police body armor.

    The ATF’s framework prompted the submission of almost 90,000 comments, most of which opposed the plan as one that would ban a popular round used in a popular rifle. For years, these green tip rounds have enjoyed an exception from a ban on armor-piercing bullets, because they are generally used for sporting purposes.

    But even when announcing that this framework would be indefinitely delayed, the ATF indicated it would continue to work on the issue and see if there’s a way to implement its framework. At a hearing last week, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said his agency was “figuring out how we do this rationally.”

    Engel was more direct, and said the ATF had it right, and that it’s framework should now be implemented via legislation.

    “As the ATF rightly pointed out, these rounds can easily be loaded into concealed pistols and other short guns, making them particularly dangerous to police officers,” Engel noted. “The well-being of the men and women who protect us should not, and need not, be a partisan issue. I encourage all of my colleagues in Congress to support this obvious measure that will, if enacted, save lives.”

    Engel blamed the gun industry for promoting the use of armor-piercing bullets.

    “There is absolutely no compelling argument to be made for anyone else to have access to them,” he said. “But the out of touch gun industry lobby is fighting tooth and nail to keep cop-killing ammunition on the streets.”
    Republican senators opposed to the ATF’s proposal said last week that the real issue is how banning a popular cartridge makes it harder for people to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

    “If law-abiding gun owners cannot obtain rifle ammunition, or face substantial difficulty in finding ammunition available and at reasonable prices because government entities are banning such ammunition, then the Second Amendment is at risk,” dozens of senators wrote in a letter to the ATF.

    Other Democrats supporting Engel’s bill are Reps. Yvette Clarke (N.Y.), Carolyn Maloney (N.Y.), and Bonnie Watson Coleman (N.J.).

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...backin-the-form-of-a-new-bill-from-democrats/

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