Help Me Get Started Reloading...

[dieselmudder]

Lookin good John. I use coffee cans for bulk brass also. Ziplok type sandwich baggies, and a sharpie work for breaking out cases into other subparts. cleaned, cleaned/sized, sized and primed, primed/trimmed, once fired, twice fired, unknown fired........ I also use the sharpie a lot on load development. Write right on the cases 1, 2, 3, etc. to correlate with loads in my notebook. Everything i load is documented. All load workups. Then when i find one i like it gets a star, an its own page for verification and further documentation. I like to name my loads also. My two favorite in .223 are "Black Lasers" and the "Golden Ticket to Heaven" The former being a Nosler 55 tipped Varmegeddon over IMR 3031, and the latter a 77 Nosler HPBT over AR Comp.

 

[John A.]

I keep records of my favorite loads too and I have a binder that I usually keep on top of my component drawer around my load manuals.

I have the binder separated into different categories and each caliber I am loading for and it's growing Shotgun, Pistol, and now Rifle.

I have always stuck right with published data, but I have a chrony incoming and will be able to tweak some of them better now that I have a way to determine their speed. I'm going to be starting with my subsonic (suppressed) loads so I can tweak them so they will perform better out of my gun(s).

Coffee cans are easiest for me to keep everything at least somewhat organized. I also have some gallon plastic ice cream buckets.

If I don't shoot the bullets immediately, I keep my batches in their own ziplock with a note listing the recipe, bullet type, etc. when I put them in the ammo can.

 

[nitesite]

OP, Please don't get too frustrated about what reloading is like by first starting out with a bottleneck tapered rifle cartridge.

Rifle reloading takes a TON of time for each loaded round. Lubing the case before sizing, decapping, cutting the crimps from military primer pockets, swaging the primer pocket, it just goes on and on and on.

If you ever try a typical handgun cartridge to reload you will be amazed at how much simpler and faster it is.

 

[Deep1]

Yeah, 300 BLK is not an easy round for a novice. The key is take it slow and pay attention. You should have no problem. As mentioned in the list of things to have on hand, make sure you have a bullet puller before you start. As a beginning reloader you will become very familiar with it's use.

 

[oli700]

Rifle reloading takes a TON of time for each loaded round. Lubing the case before sizing, decapping, cutting the crimps from military primer pockets, swaging the primer pocket, it just goes on and on and on.

If you ever try a typical handgun cartridge to reload you will be amazed at how much simpler and faster it is.

tell us why rifle is harder ?

lets say 223 vs .357 Magnum ?

 

[Deep1]

The biggest difference is time. I do not full length resize my rifle brass unless it is for a semi-auto or I need to bump the shoulder back or need to trim. But for a semi-auto you will need to full length resize which means you have to lube the cases. It is faster to use a spray lube like Hornady One-Shot, but they are mighty proud of it. Much cheaper to use regular case lube and a pad. But even neck sizing for a bolt gun is very time consuming because unlike my AR's I am very meticulous with my bolt gun ammo. I decap, tumble, measure the length, if needs trimming, full length resize, trim, check neck thickness, if need be, turn the necks, clean the primer pockets, neck resize, prime, hand weigh and throw powder, seat bullets, factory crimp and then check for bullet run out and true to .001 or less.

Pistol, tumble em, throw them through my progressive press and crank 'em out.

 

[oli700]

It is faster to use a spray lube like Hornady One-Shot, but they are mighty proud of it.

yeah they are but I will pay, once I figured out the bag-n-spray method I will never turn back......bolt gun cases i spray in the block
I spray about 100 at a time for 223, in about 30 seconds, never a stuck case.
I consider lubing bulk brass a non factor in my reloading equation, the step is next to nothing and fail free for me...I would do 300 the same way if it were me

for my bulk I

tumble
lube in bag
decap, trim/deburr if once fired...if not then
prime
set powder drop ,throw powder at the meter, fast
set projectile

no crimp, no messing with primer pocket till super dirty

these are never more than a 3 MOA round , I shoot no less than 4 inch gongs and no bigger than 12 inch with these and never fail to hit, never fail to cycle .

 

[dieselmudder]

The biggest difference is time. I do not full length resize my rifle brass unless it is for a semi-auto or I need to bump the shoulder back or need to trim. But for a semi-auto you will need to full length resize which means you have to lube the cases. It is faster to use a spray lube like Hornady One-Shot, but they are mighty proud of it. Much cheaper to use regular case lube and a pad. But even neck sizing for a bolt gun is very time consuming because unlike my AR's I am very meticulous with my bolt gun ammo. I decap, tumble, measure the length, if needs trimming, full length resize, trim, check neck thickness, if need be, turn the necks, clean the primer pockets, neck resize, prime, hand weigh and throw powder, seat bullets, factory crimp and then check for bullet run out and true to .001 or less.

Pistol, tumble em, throw them through my progressive press and crank 'em out.

What dies do you use? As far as seating and crimping? I used to use a Lee factory crimp on everything. Now its only on bulk stuff for semi auto. Otherwise i just use neck tension from the resize. I've not run any on a concentricity gauge, but my understanding is that you need higher end dies to reduce your runout. I attemt to mitigate runout with my dies by rotating the round as i seat. Basically seating in steps, if that makes sense

 

[Deep1]

I use a Lee FCD on everything and seat with the standard seating and crimping die with the die backed out so it will not crimp. I have had their custom shop make FCD's for me in calibers they do not offer. I believe that if you are looking for precision as opposed to accuracy checking your run out is very important. You can seriously decrease run out with competition dies, but I am correcting the run out so I never saw the reasoning in paying that much for dies personally. I use Lee collet neck dies on everything I can and have had some made custom also, but I never saw the point in calibers like 416 Rigby. Those I full length resize to eliminate chambering hang ups. Trust me you do not shoot that rifle off the bench if you can avoid it. Load development with the 416 is an experience. The only rifle calibers I do not hand weigh powder for each round is 300 BLK and the PC cast lead bullets I put through my Ruger Scout. And like you, I pay for One-Shot. It's expensive but it is quick and easy and cleans up very quickly.

 

[nitesite]

tell us why rifle is harder ?

lets say 223 vs .357 Magnum ?

I think others here have already helped or will help to explain why there are (potentially) MANY more time consuming steps to doing rifle, especially for a semi-auto. And that is just for plain ol' plinking ammo.....

C'mon guys. Let's put this out there! (oli700 knows the answers but he is helping to get the info out there by asking the questions).

And Bill well knows that almost no pistol case needs lubed (assuming a carbide sizing die) and practically nobody doing pistol ammo feels a need to measure case length or trim to length. I know... you are trying to encourage the discussion. Thanks, pard.

I agree that if I was only neck-sizing already trimmed to length rifle brass used only in a singular bolt gun, I could load a round in about as few steps as a .357-Magnum.

But otherwise if I had to lube and full-length resize and deal with crimped primer pockets, etc it is a lot more of a PITA to do even the minimum necessary steps which can be numerous. Making 3-MOA bottleneck rifle blasting ammo simply takes more steps/time than does straight walled or tapered wall pistol ammo.

<I love these discussions if it helps people who are just getting into reloading> 'Course, once we have read thru the first of many reloading manuals we would know all this without going on a forum, right?

 

[dieselmudder]

More steps, yes. Hence why lots of us load in bulk quantities. Dedicate several hundred rounds to each step, Do them in batches. Spend one evening sizing/depriming all 1-500, the next evening trimming, and swaging primer pockets, the next evening priming and inspecting. Then you have prepped cases to charge and seat bullets into at leisure.

 

[nitesite]

More steps, yes. Hence why lots of us load in bulk quantities. Dedicate several hundred rounds to each step, Do them in batches. Spend one evening sizing/depriming all 1-500, the next evening trimming, and swaging primer pockets, the next evening priming and inspecting. Then you have prepped cases to charge and seat bullets into at leisure.

More steps, yes.

I am on record for almost as long as gun forums have existed stating that I do bulk rifle ammo in little bitty steps.

One evening I tumble and then lube/full-length size/deprime. Then they all go in a ziplock bag marked that they finished STEP ONE.

Another night I check case length and trim/chamfer/deburr those that require trimming. I also swage primer pockets that need the crimp eliminated. STEP TWO in the bag.

Another night I re-tumble the cases to get the case lube off and I prime them with a hand priming tool. Then back they go into a ziplock with a sharpie marker telling me they are ready for loading and the primer I used. STEP THREE out of the way. YAY!!!!!!!

When I want to make a LOT of bulk rifle ammo (talking .223/5.56mm or 7.62x51mm here) on some crappy night when the weather sucks I just set the powder measure and the seating die, and then I'm making bottle necked rifle ammo at a rate of about 300~350/hour as fast as I can grab those prepped cases out of the ziplock bag. DONE!!!!!

It almost seems enjoyable and relaxing when I do it this way in stages over several sessions, because if I had to start with 200 once fired dirty cases with mil-crimped primers and wanted to go from beginning to end just to make 3-MOA ammo.... I would just pay for factory ammo. Yeah, it sucks that bad.

 

[nitesite]

I don't do a fraction of that crap when I prep brass for .38-Special/.357 Magnum or 9mm or .45 Auto or any other common pistol/revolver case.

Like I said at the end of my above post...

Yeah, it sucks that bad.

Thats the price you pay.

 

[Deep1]

The worst part of precision rifle ammo is the initial prep of new cases. Sizing, trimming, chamfering, uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes. weighing them and sorting by weight. I actually love almost all of the tedious aspects of Handloading rifle ammo. But new case prep sucks.

 

[oli700]

you guys have fun in here .....reloading is what you make it.

 

[nitesite]

oli700~ We ARE having fun in here, just like you.

I find doing case prep and all that other crap is very very relaxing as long as I don't feel that I am working under a tight deadline. (see post #32 last paragraph)

<smile>

Your bud,

dave

 

[nitesite]

Hi Bill...

I have used a drill press and a correct drill bit to cut the crimp off really quick but it isn't precise or repeatable. Sometimes I have cut a little bit too deep but it still works.

I also have a RCBS swaging die set that presses the crimp away (the set comes with stuff to swage both small and large primer pockets
and it definitely works) and using the RCBS die I can do crimped cases as fast as I can pull the handle. It's as easy as screwing in a die and there really is no adjustment involved. I like it.

The hand-twisting tools to cut off primer crimps are pretty poor, except for the Possum Hollow one. But... When you come across a single crimped primer pocket and don't wish to put it off to the side until later, the Possum Hollow tool is great. No need to swage the pocket afterwards, it it ready to go.

I guess for trimming (which is the part I dislike the most) you have the Giraud device right?

 

[WNCmotard]

Have I mentioned today how much you guys rock? Lots of great info to get me started. In the beginning, I'll be doing very small batches, like 50 or 100 at a time, and starting with pre-prepped brass for the first run also to let me learn the other things first. Thus far I have the press, tumbler, and my dies and will slowly add other stuff. I would have had it all this month, but something came up that requires the cash I had set aside for it that is more important. So maybe in a month or two.

 

[Deep1]

Reloading is not as much a past time as a mental illness. I actually enjoy all aspects of reloading and handloading. Some are just better than others. Wait until you have 3 or 4 presses and can justify them all!

 

[oli700]

The hand-twisting tools to cut off primer crimps are pretty poor, except for the Possum Hollow one. But... When you come across a single crimped primer pocket and don't wish to put it off to the side until later, the Possum Hollow tool is great. No need to swage the pocket afterwards, it it ready to go.

I guess for trimming (which is the part I dislike the most) you have the Giraud device right?

never heard of it, I use a lathe for everthing but .223, that I use a Little Crow Gun Works......throw it in , cut, deburr flip and take the primer crimp with the deburr tool....

if this is wrong and poor practice I couldn't tell.....I would group these with anyone's BULK ammo ......it is fast though

for military crimp what is wrong with flipping the case over after deburring and taking the crimp off with 3 or 4 turns of this ?

oli700~ We ARE having fun in here, just like you.

I find doing case prep and all that other crap is very very relaxing as long as I don't feel that I am working under a tight deadline. (see post #32 last paragraph)

<smile>

Your bud,

dave

funny, I would slave to build the 3 moa in very short time....whats 1000 brass fmj now ? ......better part of 350 bucks, no thanks I make better ammo in a hurry


.......and I still dont see how hand gun is harder than rifle

unless you guys think more time means harder

step for step, no harder. I think I would rather load rifle all day.

but since others kinda gave me the reasoning I guess I'll live with that

yeah potentially there are SOME more steps....MANY.....I dont think there is MANY in the entire process, but that is potentially.

Trimming happens to both, don't we want our crimped handgun cases all the same size ? my long range ammo I treat with more steps but you CAN load rifle cases grossly over spec in length.....measure some factory Lake City cases ....all over the place and usually way long, that's the 450 dollar a case shit

Lube.....ok , yes you have to do it for rifle and not for pistol...., you have to bell pistol cases , not rifle so there is a wash although getting the bell right on the pistol case I would say is harder than lubing......lubing CAN be more time consuming but it is NOT hard. Belling the case is more technical and can be all screwed up.

what else am I missing?....powder the same, priming the same , projectile.....well again a wash depending if you are crimping or not .

I am sick today and in a fog so I might not be seeing it clearly