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I get asked by a lot of Americans about this:

Four Fingers of Death

Four Fingers of Death

.410
Gun Laws in my State, New South Wales.

Please note, this is the law, not my choice, so don’t bang on about it please.

Semi auto firearms and pump action shotguns are banned apart from special license holders (farmers, graziers, (ranchers) and professional vermin controllers such as pro Kangaroo cullers, etc).

All firearms are registered.

Licensed shooters can own long arms (apart from the above) for hunting and target shooting.

Licensed Pistol Club members can own handguns (up to 45cal and a special license for anything over 38Cal) for target shooting only. They are not to be used for hunting or personal protection.

Personal protection is not considered a valid reason for owning a firearm.

A license holder is obliged to attend a shooting range a certain number of times each year. The shooting organisation is obliged to notify the NSW Police Firearms Registry (FAR) if a member does not comply. These are the attendances:

Long Arms hunting license: 2 shoots per year

Long Arms Target license: 4 shoots per year

Combined Target/hunt lic: 6 shoots per year

Pistol club member: 6 shoots per year

Requirements for each category of handgun (Air Pistol/rimfire/centrefire). 4 shoots per year. If a member of a Pistol Club owned one type of handgun, he would be obliged to shoot just the 6 times. If he/she owned a rimfire and a centrefire, they would be required to attend a minimum of eight times a year (our state allows two types of shoot to be shot on the same day).

There is some confusion from the FAR regarding the High Calibre requirements. Some of their officers say 4 attendances a year and some say because it is a separate license, you need to do 6.

To buy a gun you need to apply for a Permit to Acquire (PTA). A PTA for a long arm can just be submitted to the FAR by the shooter. A PTA for a handgun must be signed off by one of the Pistol Club’s officals (President / Secretary / Captain).

These PTAs cost $30 and are a big money spinner for the Government. Pensioners are free.

So you can see if you are prepared to jump through a few hoops, you can keep shooting. Heaven help you if you used your handgun to protect yourself or your family from a home invader, it should have been locked in the safe and the ammo should have been locked away separately.

It sucks, but we are stuck with it.

Another interesting twist is anything that resembles a (modern) military rifle is banned. You can own an Archangel stock as it is just a bit of metal and plastic after all, but if you fit it to your Glock or Ruger Charger, you are in big trouble. Makes no sense to me, it is illegal to make the gun twice as big and therefore hard to conceal??? Semi Autos, AR15s, etc, etc are legal in New Zealand, but become devices of the devil when they cross the short (ish) stretch of water to Australia. Go figure.
 
Thanx a bunch, Four Fingers, for the explanation of the details of Aussie gun legal environment. We get generalities reported, but this is of great interest.
Welcome to the MO forums.
 
So should I assume that law enforcement officers in Australia still carry handguns?

Or have they gone over all POME as well?
 
Nope, all armed. Glock 40S&W (Model 10 Smih and Wessons for some female officers with small hands, reasonably rare though). I worked in Corrections, used the Model 10 as well. The escort and emergency / hostage response, etc units carry Glock 40S&Ws and shotguns and several other exotic arms. The general duty officers also use Mini 14s for towers, etc and 870 Wingmasters for emergency situations. Gas is God as well, lol. Capsicum spray for the cops, no holds barred for corrections.

The Brits may be unarmed, but there are usually big strong boys and girls dressed in black and armed to the teeth with submachine guns, etc not far aways cruising in vans.
 
Four Fingers of Death said:
......The Brits may be unarmed, but there are usually big strong boys and girls dressed in black and armed to the teeth with submachine guns, etc not far aways cruising in vans.
Click to expand...

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away..... :D

I think in the Uk it can take up to an hour for an armed unit to arrive at a scene...
 
Yep, a gun in the hand of a Bobbie on the beat would be way better than a van load of machine guns an hour away. I remember reading about ten years of so ago that the police officers were offered weapons, but voted against it.

IN days gone by, the unoffical rule was 'no guns on the manor' and crooks kept to it, but these days with the level of drugs and rabid ethnic gangs, the gloves are off.
 
Thanks for your post! I appreciate you letting us know what you go through.

Can I ask how bad the black market for banned guns is? What is available? What ethnic gangs are you struggling with?
 
my question is simple, how many sets of the four fingers of death have you eaten to earn that name ?
 
The name was earned when I worked at Long Bay Prison in the mid 80s. Three of us were used to sort out 'difficulties.' One was an old school classmate and Vietnam Vet called Agent Orange by the crims, the second was a fat guy who was a hard arse kick boxer, they called him Jabba the Hut and I had lost part of my right ring finger and they nicknamed me Four Fingers of Death. It is now my cowboy action alias.
 
Oh...
You shoot cowboy style?

Could you post some pics of your kit please?
 
Four Fingers of Death said:
The name was earned when I worked at Long Bay Prison in the mid 80s. Three of us were used to sort out 'difficulties.' One was an old school classmate and Vietnam Vet called Agent Orange by the crims, the second was a fat guy who was a hard arse kick boxer, they called him Jabba the Hut and I had lost part of my right ring finger and they nicknamed me Four Fingers of Death. It is now my cowboy action alias.
Click to expand...
lol, ok.......I thought you were a C-Rat fan.
 
CaddmannQ said:
Oh...
You shoot cowboy style?

Could you post some pics of your kit please?
Click to expand...

I havn't actually shot it for awhile, I am the Rifle Captain at our local shooting complex and have been busy with that. I am about to get back into it. I will try and dig the stuff out in a few days and take some photos.

I shoot the Uberti 1873 in my avitar, or did unti it started to fail. The 'gunsmith' at the shop interstate butchered it and it has had three local guys try and get it going properly. I think I will have to do a full moving parts replacement. Very frustrating. I bought it, two Pietta 44/40 Colt Clones and a IAC Hammer shotgun, all 'competition prepped' One Pietta worked like a charm. one had the second notch partly broken off and the shotgun was totally useless and wouldn't fire on one barrel and was intermittent on the other. I ended up selling the Piettas cheap, the shotgun is a go-er, but won't last long as the case hardening on the internals is well worn (I had to have the sears recut, springs replaced, etc, etc, etc). The rifle would fail to fire factory Winchester Factory Cowboy ammo and would only work about six out of ten times on reloads using Federal Primers.

I have been shooting an ever reliable Rossi 92 in 357 (shooting 38s) and have resurrected my Ruger New Model Vaqueros in 45 Colt. I also have a pair of Ruger Old Army cap and ball guns which I will probably use when I get competitive with them and a few reliability issues are sorted with one of them. I have an old Uberti 1866 in 44/40 that was a bit dicky years ago, but I might give it a run as I think it was the Magtec ammo and brass I was using back then.

The funny thing is, my experience with the interstate gunsmith is appaling, but most og my friends use his reworked guns and think they are wonderful and have no problems. He must have been drunk when he did mine or the shop sweeper actually did mine.
 
Thank you for posting all that up 'Fingers.

I was warned off of the Piettas, but I did buy an Uberti Evil Roy .357 SAA clone.

So far it's been a pretty nice gun with one minor issue that mostly resolved itself.

I looked at the Uberti leverguns, but heard many mixed reviews.

I ended up with a Mossberg 464 and a couple Henrys.

The 464 and the .357 Henry have both had issues too, but the 464 is working OK now, while the Henry still needs attention.

So far I only have a hammerless shotgun. I'm still looking for the right rabbit ear scattergun.
 
CaddmannQ said:
So far I only have a hammerless shotgun. I'm still looking for the right rabbit ear scattergun.
Click to expand...

I bought the IAC Hammer fun as I wanted to compete in Classic Cowboy, which specifies the hammer gun. It is a clone of the old Colt shotgun I have been told. I have it working now and I really like it, but after all of the gunsmith and unsmithing it has received, I can't imagine it will stand up to continual competition. I will let it go cheap to a hunter and appraise him of the faults. It will last many a season as a hunting gun.

Don't get me wrong the Pietta is a fine revolver, one of mine just got damaged in the 'tuning.' The other one is a fine revolver. I will buy another in the future in 45Colt for Black Powder use only.
 
I'm not looking to compete myself. . . .too old and blind.
But I'm a nostalgic fellow and I like to shoot the antique designs.

I will eventually buy a replica buffalo gun and a rabbit-eared side by side.

Right now this is my only scattergun: a pre-war Sears Ranger 16ga.
ranger shot.png
 
Its a hoot to shoot
but not as cute as
a 12ga blued steel
rabbit eared brute.

I've been digging and doing some plumbing all morning and now I am relaxing with a beer, and I suddenly came over all poetic.
 
Four Fingers of Death said:
Yep, a gun in the hand of a Bobbie on the beat would be way better than a van load of machine guns an hour away. I remember reading about ten years of so ago that the police officers were offered weapons, but voted against it.

IN days gone by, the unoffical rule was 'no guns on the manor' and crooks kept to it, but these days with the level of drugs and rabid ethnic gangs, the gloves are off.
Click to expand...

" I remember reading about ten years of so ago that the police officers were offered weapons, but voted against it."

Not quite.............

I retired from the Police there in 2008. I now live in Spain. What ACTUALLY happened was that we had a spate of unarmed Officers getting killed and seriously injured by armed criminal vermin. There was an outcry from various people saying "enough is enough".

So the Police Federation of England Wales did their little "poll" stunt. The government and the Fed wanted a NO answer and this is how they got that NO answer.

They sent out tick box yes or no "questionnaires" to a selected few Officers across the country. The vast majority of them were sent to Officers in NON OPERATIONAL roles, any that they could think of. Operational Officers like me, well very few of us got them, you know the guys called out to deal with the drunken doped up idiot waving a Samurai sword around in the city centre ?

No they sent them to Child protection units, Control room staff, crime management unit staff, any kind of non front line office wallah they could come up with.

That is how they got their big resounding NO THANKS answer that they wanted. I remember thinking at the time "since when was anything voluntary in the Police ?"

Like the Military things like lawful orders, mandatory training and operational equipment are not open to negotiation. The boss says jump the reply is how high ? Otherwise your job is at risk.

Sorry to ramble on a bit but it still touches a raw nerve with me to this day.

Welcome to the forum by the way.
 
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