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Question Of The Month. (May 2020) (Rights During Pandemic)

Discussion in 'Question of the Month' started by carbinemike, May 10, 2020.

  1. carbinemike

    carbinemike Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    5,996
    Howdy,
    This is a monthly series of questions topic for everyone to join in on the discussion. Some of the questions may have a poll, and some will not. Don't be shy now, go ahead and post an answer and vote in the polls...

    How far should governments be able to go with inhibiting rights during a pandemic?
  2. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    3,235
    One only needs to look at the constitution.

    Never have so few clamped down so hard on so many in this country. I think we are witnessing a test run to see how far folks will bend over and spread for the few at the top.
  3. Ernst

    Ernst .270 WIN Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    256
    Unfortuantly the government, at all levels, has ignored the Constitution and our Bill of Rights in the name of yet another "crisis." But, in my opinion, "we the people" are the ones to blame. We elect these individuals but we don't hold them accountable for their actions!

    We the people should be deciding what's an essential service or what stores or recreation places should be open not some governor or unelected state official. Plus there is no consistency across states. How can something be essential in one state but a mile across the border it's not?

    What the government, at all levels, should be doing is educating the public not prescribing to the public.

    In any crisis there should be a range of response options vice the "one size fits all" approach typically taken by lazy and non-thinking bureaucrats. If you look at most states the vast number of the virus cases are in the major population centers whereas the majority of the other counties have no or few cases. With a escalating range of options it's easy to address the local situation.

    However, our real concern should be on the aftermath. We should all remember 9/11. Yes it was a national tragedy. But the real tragedy was the freedoms lost by the resulting Patriots Act. And look what has just happened in Canada through the wholesale banning of weapons by the PM as a result of an unrelated event. These bureaucrats will use any crisis to further their cause because in their minds they are the ones who know best, not us individuals.

    What is done is done and unfortuantly the "majority" (with some of us being exceptions) have gone along with these draconian over reach measures. Yes, I know some will disagree with this old guy but I have one question for you.

    If the government's mandatory wearing of face masks protects you at the grocery store, the liquor and marijuana stores why won't it protect you at all the "non-essential" places including schools, parks, fishing holes and bait shops. Can buy your booze but can't get your hair cut or go to church!

    Finally, we must be careful to make sure the aftermath is not worse than the crisis!

    Regards
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  4. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    3,235
    Dang it Ernst, I wish I could have put things such as you did. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The slippery slope is being greased daily.
    ripjack13 likes this.
  5. John A.

    John A. I'm "THAT" guy Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    14,838
    Many countries don't even have rights. We're special.

    I was wearing a facemask in public for a while now. But not because some politician told me I had to and I was wearing one before that mandate. With that said, If I don't want to wear a mask, good luck trying to make me wear one.
    ripjack13 and meanstreak like this.
  6. Bobster

    Bobster .30-06 Supporter

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    2,042
    I belong to the Church of the Immune Herd. I don't necessarily want people to die but I want everyone to catch CV so we can move on and start recovering economically. The vast majority of deaths are of people who were not healthy to begin with. And I am CERTAIN, and it is detailed in this LINK, that most deaths being recorded are of people that might have had CV at the time of death, but did NOT die from it! The wait for death is unnecessarily prolonged in many countries, especially the US. People need to accept their mortality. We need to return to the old days where the infirm would not be shipped to a "nursing home" to rot away, instead they would go home to be with family who would care for them. What type of life does a bed-ridden stroke or Alzheimer's patient (for example) in a nursing home have? Soylent Green, anyone? ;)

    There is far too much manic panic going on with the constant media coverage, particularly by the "weenie" stations like MSNBC, CNN and NPR. And far too many people "sheltering in place" watching that crap! :mad: They have a "count-up window" of infections and deaths displayed on the screen at all times. I don't watch either network but my wife does and I happen to catch blips here and there and it is sheer misinformation, IMO. There is near continuous bashing of Trumpy over every little snafu, and I think he has done a reasonable job in handling it but I actually think he has gone TOO far. The media and Dumpos are making the most of this "crisis" and not letting it go to waste (or go away! :mad: ).

    The worst thing about CV is the "Closing" that has been forced upon us. It has brought about severe unemployment with the promise of extra/extended benefits and no real directive or incentive for workers to leave their homes to go back to work. This sedentary life sponsored by the gov't will have far reaching physical and mental health effects under the guise of "we don't want you to get sick or get anyone sick". This is FAR TOO MUCH government control and the sheeple are willing but this Libertarian is NOT! :mad: This is dastardly vote-buying at best... Paying companies to continue paying their workers when there is nothing for them to do is utter lunacy.

    Closer to my home, we are self-employed and have not had any problems with suppliers and products or with customers paying. There was one metal supplier I stopped in because I was in the area on other biz, who had closed the "satellite" location I stopped at, with a sign saying "Due to blahblahblah, this location is closed. Please visit our store at...". And the early closing of home or hardware stores is very inconvenient for this night owl. The local ACE Hdwr is now closing at 5pm! :eek: All these stores are claiming to close early to sanitize--I wouldn't be surprised if this became the new normal, even after CV. (rolleyes) I will be doing a stock order of hardware soon, and hope that nothing is out of stock because that would be even more inconvenient and COULD affect my business!

    We are not eligible for unemployment nor food stamps but we certainly aren't making a killing, either. The bills keep coming, regardless. And we keep paying them. The wife wants to do the "prolong" the mortgage thing (I forget the term) but if it can be paid, I want to continue paying it. The gov't bribe, when we get it, will probably go towards the next property tax bill. Or a vehicle lift for my shop. My 17 and 19yo kids do not get a dime... :(

    Did anyone ever consider there are things that are near impossible to keep sanitized? Such as paper and metal currency? Money is FILTHY and always has been... "Ok, we'll just use our debit card" but you still have to punch in your PIN on dirty buttons. Then there are door handles to the store and inside on the coolers. And what about a product a CV-carrier picks up and puts back like a bag of chips or candy bar then someone else picks it up. Or a gas pump handle. Or a toilet flush handle. Or sink knobs. I seriously doubt ANYONE is 100% or even 75% contagion free at the end of the day even after wearing the PPE and taking every precaution...

    It is only a matter of time until the slip-n-fall lawyers start with the class action lawsuits. :eek: I think there should be a blanket "Act of the Gods" legal determination on CV--no one is at fault or will ever be at fault aside from gross incompetence and negligence... Think of it: someone goes in to a hospital for a new knee (elective surgery) and they come down with CV but survive. They get a little flu or something then recover. Then they bring suit for the "emotional distress" getting the virus has caused them...
    MikeD, meanstreak and Ernst like this.
  7. fellmann

    fellmann Esoteric Supporter Premier Member

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    694
    We could debate a long time about when rights collide with responsibility. Both masters and slaves have rights and responsibilities.

    In the best of worlds, society should do everything for the survival of humanity over the individual in a catastrophic event. But, we dont have the best of worlds...

    Ill stop here :)

    Be well and take care
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    meanstreak likes this.
  8. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    3,235
    The left in this country has been trying undercut "rugged individualism" for a long time now. Those types are not easily controlled.
  9. Ernst

    Ernst .270 WIN Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    256
    This video by Dr. Janet Ossebaard, while over 8 minutes long (warning) takes a similar approach to this month's forum question. Dr. Ossebaard is the author of books and documentaries on Crop Circles. Though some might find the video interesting.

    meanstreak likes this.
  10. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    We need the local governments to establish local rules.

    Situations are local. That's why one world government won't work.
    It sounds nice & uniform, the way a steam roller makes a road uniform.

    But situations in Fresno are far different that Frisco. Why should we have uniform rules for an entire state, even?

    We are supposed to make our local rules and send reps to Sacto and DC to work on the state & federal rules. But any law that says a gay theater in Frisco is the same as a church in Fresno, as far as public safety, is a blind law and a stupid one. It's also a state law, because lots of voters worship gay sex. Did we see masks after AIDs became a thing? Nope.

    Local governments need to establish distance from the highers to avoid being steamrolled. We need to emerge from this on a localized basis.
    Ernst and meanstreak like this.
  11. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    When all government employees, and I consider congress, mayors, governors, and all of the millions that work for the government are without pay. When the news media and Hollywood are shut down. When folks that are working at home for large corporations have no job. When truckers and grocery stores and hospitals shut down. Then we can have an honest debate about reopening.

    I am retired and so far this debacle has had minimal affect on me. However, I am offended that some beaurecrat can tell working people trying to feed their families that their job is not essential.

    For the most part the news media is not reporting the news. They are fanning the flames and spreading the fear. That goes for the local stations to the national broadcasts. You would think one honest reporter or editorial writer would be for reopening.

    This is beyond jobs and the economy. This has now got to the point of reopening people's lives.

    Oh, and in case anyone is wondering. I did get a stimulus check. I'm not sure why, as I said before my life has not been impacted financially one bit. Actually it has improved as there is nothing to spend money on.
    John A. and CaddmannQ like this.
  12. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    We've had a couple minor altercations here from people wishing to open up for business.

    Is it worse to close restaurants, then send DoorDash from door to door? People who don't feel well usually order things delivered. Old folks too.

    Like me.....eeeeeh.....I dunno.....

    We get boxes 3 to 6 times a week, for years, an it's increased now.
    meanstreak likes this.
  13. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    I do not feel the government has the right to violate any of our Constitutional rights for any reason, ever!

    I do not feel the government has the right to violate any of our Constitutional rights for any reason, ever! (repeated for emphasis!)

    I do not feel the government should have the ability to destroy the business, livelihood, profession, etc. of any law abiding citizen, ever!

    I do not feel the government should force virus patients into previously uninfected nursing homes, ever!

    The Constitution is there to protect the people from a tyrannical government, there is no provision stating that the contract is null and void if we have a pandemic.


    I get it the SARS-COV-2 can be deadly and complications from it can also kill people but the numbers do not match the predictions. There has to be a balance and I believe the pendulum has swayed way to far in the direction of control because they are more concerned with winning an election and changing America than they are the individual citizen and their livelihood.
    John A. and meanstreak like this.
  14. CaddmannQ

    CaddmannQ 12g Supporter

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    7,892
    On the Fox news feed this AM:
    It appears a Calif pharm co has developed a 100% effective antibody for covid 19.
    They say it eliminated the virus in 4 days and was completely effective.
    meanstreak likes this.
  15. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    I read the same thing. My fingers are crossed.
  16. MikeD

    MikeD I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator "Philanthropist"

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    Next months question should be, "when a vaccine becomes available will you take it?"
  17. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    That will be fun...
  18. Ernst

    Ernst .270 WIN Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    It's not the government's job to protect your health.

    It's the government's job to protect your rights.

    It's your job to protect your own health.

    When you trade liberty for safety you wind up losing both.

    Where did the true Americans go?
    Pawpaw and meanstreak like this.
  19. Scoop

    Scoop .30-06

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    1,994
    How far should governments be able to go with inhibiting rights during a pandemic?

    Guard the coast, deliver the mail, then leave me the hell alone!

    Advice to the gummint from some Unknown Genius.
    I first heard it from my dad in the mid '50s.
    CaddmannQ and meanstreak like this.
  20. meanstreak

    meanstreak .30-06 Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    One shoe does not fit all.

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