• Mossberg Owners is in the process of upgrading the software. Please bear with us while we transition to the new look and new upgraded software.

School Shooting in Parkland, Florida... :-(

Bobster

Bobster

.30-06
By now you have heard about this most recent school shooting. And of course, you've probably heard about calls for more gun control in the wake of the tragedy. :rolleyes:

This post is not about those things as my feelings would be preaching to the choir, so to speak. In other words, there should not be ANY new gun laws passed nor would any law or additional laws have prevented this. Well technically, IF the laws were obeyed (which they were not--ie: gun in a "no-gun" zone) this would not have happened. But we know how that works or more specifically, doesn't work. :(

What I want to talk about is how you should teach your kids how to save their ass and not be a victim, gods willing. As a parent should do, I discussed the shooting with my 15 and 17 year old high-schoolers. Current policy dictates that the children should hide and be quiet. Or in my eyes, become a potential sitting duck. As we are finding out, the shooter shot through locked doors. :eek:

First thing I discussed was the need to get as far away from the situation as possible. If on the ground floor, take a chair, bust out a window and get the hell out of there! That is the first thing they should do regardless of what the teacher tells them to do. Don't wait to be a victim!

If flight is not possible, they should try to rush the shooter when he/she is reloading and/or back is turned. They do not teach ANYTHING like this so I will be taking it upon myself to show my kids tactics that can be used to disarm a shooter if they are not in his/her sights. A great deal of ground can be covered in a couple seconds and if a weapon is grabbed in a certain way, bending the trigger finger back, it can literally be ripped from a shooter's grasp at which point it should be used as an "assault weapon" against the shooter bludgeoning he or she into unconsciousness. Or if the shooter has another weapon, the original weapon will then be discharged into the shooter.

If is far more complicated than this and who is to say what scenario will present itself. The likelihood of a school or other populated building shooting is very, very, very small, fortunately for all of us.

But we will be practicing some disarming techniques in the coming days in hopes that they will never have to utilize them... Ideally they would be armed themselves, but we know that is verboten! :rolleyes:

Another thing to think about is how does the concussion of gunshots affect someone in such a situation? :eek: While I don't think we will be firing anything sans earmuffs, it is still something to consider...

In related news, someone found a couple "bullets" (they probably meant entire cartridges) on the floor of the weight room at my kid's high school today. I learned this through a robocall from the principal. In a facebook group I belong to, many parents are keeping their kids home from school tomorrow as they did today. :rolleyes: They even cancelled a pep rally scheduled for tomorrow. :rolleyes: My kids went to school today and will go tomorrow as well--their choice. :)
 
Bobster,
Interesting you should write this today. I was talking about the shooting to my wife Wednesday when it happened about how the "experts" had not really thought this thru to the end.

About 2010 I was in a PD gym w/ a bunch of officers. We were alternating in a Fat Suit in a padded room throwing each other around. I suggested that 8 to 10 fourth-grade boys could tackle and neutralize a 180 lb man. Granted a guy armed w/ a handgun could get some shots off and kill a few, but the mental exercise was about how many kids would you need and how many would be sacrificed.

Timing is important. We figured an mobbing right after the perp entered the door may be best. Sight lines thru windows make a difference. Be aware of reloading. Somebody is going to die probably, but my thoughts were that the number would be less in a proactive assault against a bad guy.

Think back to the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando. Adults were cowering in bathrooms and hiding behind tables. Somebody that could organize a counter attack may have been able to reduce the body count. [By the way. If you have to hide in a bathroom, hide with the women. I'll tell you why in a later discussion... and it is not sexy.]

You also bring up another very good point that must be considered. War is damned noisy. People have NO IDEA how disorienting the noise of gunfire is, especially in closed rooms. That is because the loudest gunfire most people ever hear is on TV or movies.

Another thing I would not do is raise my hands as group of "survivors" is marched out. What is the worst they can do? Probably pull you out of the damned line and make a special case out of you. That may not be that bad. That is a situational decision also.

This is something that I wouldn't bring up in just social conversation because listeners would accuse me of trying to kill their babies. But I have spent much time going thru scenarios with others and I try to think outside the box.

You write> First thing I discussed was the need to get as far away from the situation as possible.

Damn straight. I emphasize that if you are not trapped in the killing zone then use Movement, Distance, Cover, Absence.

That is the solo tactic. Obviously if you have responsibility for others, like your family, friends, etc. you may not be in a position to abandon them. Then you will need plans B and C at least.

Damn, I could go on forever, but this is about a 160-hour course and I sure as hell don't know everything.
But I sure do want to keep on learning. I miss my old discussion group. You Mossies can be their stand-in for me.

And Bobster, I award you a Pat on the Back and a Gold Star for taking the initiative w/ your family. :thumbsup:

I don't think enuff of that goes on because everybody else is just wringing their hands hoping it doesn't happen to them. Then they get all riled up by the damned politicians that think the best way to solve the problems is confiscate all the guns. Whoops. That belongs in another thread.
 
I am pretty sure that three of my granddaughters could restrain me reasonably easily if they all hit me at the same time.

Also, a while back I posted a video of myself shooting a shotgun without my muffs on.

I was standing outside by a concrete wall with a hard dirt berm 12 ft away, and it was fairly loud. Still it wasn't unbearable, and this brings up the need for some live fire training.

But my real thought about this business is that back in 1960 they were promising us that everybody would go to school by the way of television and no one would have to travel to an actual School House anymore.

It was going to be the greatest Revolution in education ever, allowing one teacher to reach hundreds, thousands, even Millions of children at once; and it would have eliminated the thousands of soft targets that we call Public Schools.

Honestly speaking I would not send my own children to public school these days. Over 50 years ago, in my time, bullying and abuse was rife, teacher engagement, efficacy and empathy was minimal, and peer pressure was the overriding decision maker in every instance of such matters.

Is pretty much the same nowadays, in my imagination, except that the bullies also are more likely to carry guns and other weapons, and may not actually be students at the schools they are "visiting."

We live in an age where internet Commerce has taken over from brick-and-mortar businesses to a large degree, and we need to realize that it's time that our educational institutions give way to the same social pressures which Deliver Us from expense by engaging economies of scale.

How we protect ourselves from Mass Attack is by not massing.

How stupid are we not to understand this as a culture?
 
Three very insightful posts. If I am in a building or a mall and hear gunshots I am going to run for an exit, if I can't do that I'll hide, but I will
always be ready to fight if I must.

I am thankful I don't have children in school these days, but I do have grandchildren. It is a shame the politicians get so busy arguing this subject that they can't come up with any solutions.
 
These types of shootings make me the angriest.

I put a lot of the blame on the government in the first place. They didn't ban guns from school, they banned the ability to protect the students.

Whether intentionally or what, but the end result is the same.

How many school shootings occurred before bill Clinton signed the law?

How many have occurred since?

Serious question. But the answer should show anyone with more than a room temperature IQ to realize the status quo is not working and needs to be admitted before anything else will happen.

Gun bans are not the answer. Magazine bans are not the answer. There are already laws prohibiting guns in school and apparently they aren't being obeyed just like murder is illegal and not being obeyed.

It's time to stop being REACTIVE and start being PROACTIVE.

No, congress wont' fix the problem. They're actually part of the problem in my opinion. Complicit and complacent.

There are too many who think that "doing something meaningful" is to ban guns.

Guess what? Even if they did, and even if they were to get all the guns (and we know that isn't ever going to happen--EVER if for no other reason than guns being made outside our borders being smuggled in just like drugs). Just like alcohol prohibition, just like human trafficking, just like those people who break those laws with total disregard.

But, here's part of my solution.

Even if you don't allow honest law abiding citizens or certain teachers to be armed, then use some of that 300 million dollars funding cut that Trump cut from the UN budget and place an armed officer at schools. Metal detectors. At least do something to discourage it. As of right now, everyone knows that schools are easy targets.

Solution: Don't make them be as easy. Have deterrents in place.

And for those evil people who are taken alive, after their day in court if convicted, have public executions.

And make it as ugly as you can.

Forget the rope and tree.

Get a damn woodchipper out and put them through feet first on slow speed. Even if it stalls out half way through and takes a while to be restarted.

But having a negative consequence is a huge deterrent.

Evil people are still going to do evil things. Don't expect my idea to magically solve and prevent all shootings. It won't any more than banning guns would. But a step in the right direction is to be proactive rather than sitting around waiting for it to happen again.

There are other solutions, but we know how incompetent that congress is. I don't think many of them could tie their shoelaces and stick their thumb up their own ass.

Medicine and mental health also needs to be looked at.

But the pharmaceutical lobbyists will ensure that will never happen either. And the members of Congress whose hands they grease with their money will make sure of it.
 
My one sentence philosophy for today:

If 17 students had charged and tackled Turd named Cruz, he would not have been able to kill 17 students.
Scoop
 
I don't really like the idea of rushing an attacker.

Especially if they're the only ones in the building that are armed.

Sadly, more proof that Clintons gun free zone policies don't work, and why it needs to be changed. Even though it will never be acknowleged because it goes against their pre-written talking points.
 
You are correct.

That is not good at all.
 
I just saw that too. I'd rather be dead than hear the shots and screams in my head for the rest of my life knowing I did nothing.
 
Article that I read said he was put on leave, and he resigned.
 
Sheriff Israel slams NRA's Dana Loesch, calls for ban on automatic rifles after Florida school shooting

After deadly Parkland shooting, deputies will now carry AR-15 rifles on school grounds, sheriff says

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What good will it do to carry an ar15 on school grounds if you won't go in and engage when shots are being fired?
 
I don't have solutions but, I would have one entry into a school and it would have an electronic lock, cameras, and an armed guard, maybe two. All other doors would be exits only.

My main concern would be to keep the bad person outside.

Just my thoughts.
 
John A. said:
Sheriff Israel slams NRA's Dana Loesch, calls for ban on automatic rifles after Florida school shooting

After deadly Parkland shooting, deputies will now carry AR-15 rifles on school grounds, sheriff says

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What good will it do to carry an ar15 on school grounds if you won't go in and engage when shots are being fired?
Click to expand...
I heard clips from that discussion between Israel and Loesch, he was picking out meanial tidbits and arguing them to blatantly avoid answering the questions she was trying to ask. Days I'm driving I try to catch her radio show. She's very well educated, and doesn't go into an argument unprepared. It was disgustingly comical listening to him try and circle around all of her questions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top