Ammo and Choke advice
- Thread starter ancrox
- Start date
The #4 buck will work but you will have to pattern you gun with the choke to see if it wil work as desired.
Full would be a good starting point but sometimes depending on the gun and load a more open choke will yield the best pattern.
Full would be a good starting point but sometimes depending on the gun and load a more open choke will yield the best pattern.
@ancrox What are you hunting? 4 buck and full choke I agree with. These are usually recommended for something like coyote and cats. Also how long a shot do you intend to take? Some smaller shot works too and can be patterned like a turkey load due to smaller shot size and higher pellet count but may lack energy to take some critters beyond say 35 to 40 yards. BB, B, #2s, and even other smaller shot can work for varmints and is commonly fairly inexpensive.
I've been patterning a B load through what is nearly a turkey choke constriction, it would be on the open side of turkey chokes. It's a good combination to 50 yards though not super dense at point of aim but it only begins with 80 pellets. At 25 yards its like patterning for turkeys for sure and between 35 and 40 yards even it would be lethal on coyote sized predators.
Biggest thing as Mike mentions, pattern. Pattern everything. You can tighten up a pattern sometimes by switching ammo, sometimes a choke.
We can get into this as much or as little as you want but in either case, we'll help with any questions!
I've been patterning a B load through what is nearly a turkey choke constriction, it would be on the open side of turkey chokes. It's a good combination to 50 yards though not super dense at point of aim but it only begins with 80 pellets. At 25 yards its like patterning for turkeys for sure and between 35 and 40 yards even it would be lethal on coyote sized predators.
Biggest thing as Mike mentions, pattern. Pattern everything. You can tighten up a pattern sometimes by switching ammo, sometimes a choke.
We can get into this as much or as little as you want but in either case, we'll help with any questions!
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
.......................................
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
The Hornady® Heavy Magnum® Coyote shotgun loads deliver lethal results and minimal pelt damage out to 50 yards.
Loaded with 1 ½ ounces of nickel plated lead shot in your choice of either a BB or 00 buckshot offering, these 3 inch, 12 gauge shotshells are the perfect answer for close range predators. Both loads feature the Hornady® Versatite® wad that strips cleanly from the shot string for excellent pattern density and a short shot column for maximum effect on target.
Not only are these loads extremely effective, they're also the economical choice when compared to expensive tungsten options!
Loaded with 1 ½ ounces of nickel plated lead shot in your choice of either a BB or 00 buckshot offering, these 3 inch, 12 gauge shotshells are the perfect answer for close range predators. Both loads feature the Hornady® Versatite® wad that strips cleanly from the shot string for excellent pattern density and a short shot column for maximum effect on target.
Not only are these loads extremely effective, they're also the economical choice when compared to expensive tungsten options!
- 1 ½ oz. of nickel plated lead shot
- 1300 fps
- Versatite® wad technology for more impact on target
Lemmy, you're right. The sheer number of choices will make your head spin.
Much of what's available is hype, also searches on the webz may yield information about discontinued products.
For predator hunting, patterning is more like patterning for turkey. The 30" circle used in wing shooting and sport shooting isn't necessarily applicable in terms of determining shot percentage, but rather you're looking for the most dense part of the pattern in a 10" circle. 60 yards is going to be difficult to get to. Few loads have enough energy to be reliable at that range. 4 buck and Hevishot T can do it but Hevishot is really expensive and so far I haven't been able to get it to pattern decently but that may be more my gun, the 835, than the load itself. I've heard of the Hevishot producing good patterns and being used effectively to 60 yards plus. For me, it's a 40 yard load at best and I can do that with 4 buck for less than a third of the cost.
I have a Carlson's choke I like, but it doesn't work with the load recommended being that Hevishot. However I've heard in standard 12 gauge bores, it works better. It's near the high end in cost. Kicks and Indian creek also produce chokes being on the higher end. The Kicks runs $70 regularly, and Indian Creek around $80 or so. If you have the funds to invest, both of these have excellent customer service and will exchange choke tubes until you get the right combination. Carlson's as well has exchanged chokes for me before too. Others here have dealt more with Trulock. Also good chokes by any account.
Some chokes are listed in terms of exit diameter, some by constriction, some by improved-modified-full-xfull, and others by range like close-mid-long. It's confusing. The close-mid-long make more sense to sport and wing shooters in my mind. I'd rather just know exit diameters which refer to the nominal size at the end of the choke. For me, the bore diameter is .775 and the turkey choke I'm using is .670. That means the constriction is .105 or 105 thousandths of an inch. That's massive and most 12 gauge bores are not as big as the .775 and are closer to .730. I've never seen a choke for a standard 12 gauge as tight as a constriction of .105. I think .655 is on the tight side of 12 gauge turkey chokes.
When you pattern, a rest is usually recommended. That's up to you. I don't use a rest. I don't expect to have a rest while I'm hunting so I'm also practicing holding on target. But you'll need to count hits at POA. if you're seeing a great pattern, but its obviously not on target, find the center and mark it. Make a 10" circle from that mark and count the hits. Then work on why you're not on target. Try a few more shots and work on your hold. See if its something you're doing. In this case a rest of some kind may benefit you to try and remove error. If it continues to place shot off target, adjust your hold or your sights if you can. Use a large piece of cardboard or paper, something in the neighborhood of 36x36". I usually get cardboard from lowes and homedepot. Some people do shoot and see targets on a back board of some sort and count only the pellet strikes on the shoot and see targets.
Also for predators like coyote and cats, the reason people pattern for that like turkey is because of the small space for vitals. That's why the 10" circle works in this case too. By many accounts, a coyote will run off from a poorly placed shot. Some swear by head shots with turkey loads. Though some say if the distance is close enough, a turkey load can work. I think John A has used turkey loads on occasion. I couldn't say.
What am I missing here? Anything else?
Much of what's available is hype, also searches on the webz may yield information about discontinued products.
For predator hunting, patterning is more like patterning for turkey. The 30" circle used in wing shooting and sport shooting isn't necessarily applicable in terms of determining shot percentage, but rather you're looking for the most dense part of the pattern in a 10" circle. 60 yards is going to be difficult to get to. Few loads have enough energy to be reliable at that range. 4 buck and Hevishot T can do it but Hevishot is really expensive and so far I haven't been able to get it to pattern decently but that may be more my gun, the 835, than the load itself. I've heard of the Hevishot producing good patterns and being used effectively to 60 yards plus. For me, it's a 40 yard load at best and I can do that with 4 buck for less than a third of the cost.
I have a Carlson's choke I like, but it doesn't work with the load recommended being that Hevishot. However I've heard in standard 12 gauge bores, it works better. It's near the high end in cost. Kicks and Indian creek also produce chokes being on the higher end. The Kicks runs $70 regularly, and Indian Creek around $80 or so. If you have the funds to invest, both of these have excellent customer service and will exchange choke tubes until you get the right combination. Carlson's as well has exchanged chokes for me before too. Others here have dealt more with Trulock. Also good chokes by any account.
Some chokes are listed in terms of exit diameter, some by constriction, some by improved-modified-full-xfull, and others by range like close-mid-long. It's confusing. The close-mid-long make more sense to sport and wing shooters in my mind. I'd rather just know exit diameters which refer to the nominal size at the end of the choke. For me, the bore diameter is .775 and the turkey choke I'm using is .670. That means the constriction is .105 or 105 thousandths of an inch. That's massive and most 12 gauge bores are not as big as the .775 and are closer to .730. I've never seen a choke for a standard 12 gauge as tight as a constriction of .105. I think .655 is on the tight side of 12 gauge turkey chokes.
When you pattern, a rest is usually recommended. That's up to you. I don't use a rest. I don't expect to have a rest while I'm hunting so I'm also practicing holding on target. But you'll need to count hits at POA. if you're seeing a great pattern, but its obviously not on target, find the center and mark it. Make a 10" circle from that mark and count the hits. Then work on why you're not on target. Try a few more shots and work on your hold. See if its something you're doing. In this case a rest of some kind may benefit you to try and remove error. If it continues to place shot off target, adjust your hold or your sights if you can. Use a large piece of cardboard or paper, something in the neighborhood of 36x36". I usually get cardboard from lowes and homedepot. Some people do shoot and see targets on a back board of some sort and count only the pellet strikes on the shoot and see targets.
Also for predators like coyote and cats, the reason people pattern for that like turkey is because of the small space for vitals. That's why the 10" circle works in this case too. By many accounts, a coyote will run off from a poorly placed shot. Some swear by head shots with turkey loads. Though some say if the distance is close enough, a turkey load can work. I think John A has used turkey loads on occasion. I couldn't say.
What am I missing here? Anything else?
The Hornady® Heavy Magnum® Coyote shotgun loads deliver lethal results and minimal pelt damage out to 50 yards.
Loaded with 1 ½ ounces of nickel plated lead shot in your choice of either a BB or 00 buckshot offering, these 3 inch, 12 gauge shotshells are the perfect answer for close range predators. Both loads feature the Hornady® Versatite® wad that strips cleanly from the shot string for excellent pattern density and a short shot column for maximum effect on target.
Not only are these loads extremely effective, they're also the economical choice when compared to expensive tungsten options!
- 1 ½ oz. of nickel plated lead shot
- 1300 fps
- Versatite® wad technology for more impact on target
The only problem you'll have with the Hornady is if you use a ported choke tube. The VersaTite and porting don't work well together. Porting will cause the wad to strip away prematurely, negating any benefit.
There are alternatives if you want to use BB loads and I'll be experimenting with those in the near future.
Here's something else you should see.
From the muzzle of that shotgun and out, there are two sets of numbers. This distance below in white, and pellet count above in orange.
At 20 yards, this graph shows 54 pellets in a 10" circle. Now, Carlson's recommends this choke be used with Hevishot Ts. But in a 3" shell there are only 50 pellets. If you could get 17 pellets at 70 yards that would be awesome, but I can't get 17 pellets at 40. I can get maybe half that. 9 max but I most commonly get about 7. Even with a smaller B load I don't get 17 pellets at 50 yards. I've even tried a tighter choke because of the smaller shot size but the pattern begins to string out sideways meaning the choke is getting too tight and patterns will be inconsistent. I've gone back and forth with Scott Carlson about this but he insists the choke works as advertised.
From the muzzle of that shotgun and out, there are two sets of numbers. This distance below in white, and pellet count above in orange.
At 20 yards, this graph shows 54 pellets in a 10" circle. Now, Carlson's recommends this choke be used with Hevishot Ts. But in a 3" shell there are only 50 pellets. If you could get 17 pellets at 70 yards that would be awesome, but I can't get 17 pellets at 40. I can get maybe half that. 9 max but I most commonly get about 7. Even with a smaller B load I don't get 17 pellets at 50 yards. I've even tried a tighter choke because of the smaller shot size but the pattern begins to string out sideways meaning the choke is getting too tight and patterns will be inconsistent. I've gone back and forth with Scott Carlson about this but he insists the choke works as advertised.
What choke and gun are you using and what's the longest shot? I've not been able to pattern it worth a darn.
What is a super pattern? What is the range and pattern diameter?
Just trying to get some perspective.
As MikeD mentioned above, I too was wondering the same, at what distance are you getting effective patterns and what kind of pattern? I get better patterns with 4 buck, my best is 15 pellets in 10" at 40 yards at point of aim and my worst is 9 pellets. With the Hevishot Dead Coyote, I was getting about 7 pellets with just about any combination of choke, from a Kicks full to a much tighter Carlson's Coyote. Carlson's says to use the tighter choke, other sources say to use a more open choke. I didn't get anything reliable with any of them.
70% coverage over ? Is that a 30" circle? To me that's unreliable. I get the same results, but like I said, that's still just a several pellets in the kill zone and I can get better than that with far less expensive ammo.