Cheek riser on a home defense gun?

[Larry23433]

So thankfully I've never actually needed to use a firearm for self defense but I do have a couple dedicated home defense guns. So excuse me if this question sounds idiotic lol. On my 590a1 I just finished putting a red dot/ghost ring co-witness setup on it and took it out back shooting for a couple hours today. I absolutely love the red dot (swampfox sentinel). But it sits high enough that I don't get a great cheek weld. Even the factory ghost rings are a bit high for me for some reason. On a hunting gun I'd slap a cheek riser on it and call it good but obviously on a hunting gun I'm not worried about being fast or needing to maneuver. Putting it on a defense gun I can't help but think the cheek riser would be cumbersome when I need to get my gun up and fire quickly. I also have never really seen anyone use a riser on a defense gun so my question comes down to this. Is it more important that I use a riser to achieve a perfect cheek weld? Or more important that I keep the gun as simple as possible for maneuverability?

Any thoughts?

 

[Rodburner]

Just my opinion. To me, it would depend on how big the spaces are inside your house, how long it would take for you to gather your wits, in a middle of the night scenario, and how fast the perp was crossing said space. As a shockwave owner with a laser saddle and a smaller house, I plan to dump as many of my 8 mini bucks into the green, well before the popper even gets waist high, off hand with no part of myself exposed. I personally couldn’t fathom swinging a stocked weapon all the way to my shoulder while being then forced to square up and sight down a barrel, much less thinking about proper face/firearm interaction. Outside, sure, that would be optimal IMO, but that is no longer an HD scenario. That’s what dogs, fences, claymore’s and rifles are for..lol I hope the other guys input helps you out and I hope you do never find out if it is an important part of the encounter.

 

[Ernst]

Apex, first and most importantly you need to find what works best for you in these situations and in your home environment.

That said, let me discuss a home / self defense scenario and one option that works. Most of these situations are up close and personal ranging from 3 to 5 or maybe 7 yards. And at these distances your reaction time to a threat is minimal. I'd carry the shotgun (your stated weapon of choice) in a high ready position so that you always have the front muzzle bead or blade in your field of vision and at the same time you're focused on the potential target. This approach assures the muzzle is always on the target and at these short distances (3-5 yards) you simply bring the butt stock up "near" eye level and fire. Unlike in hunting situation a "perfect" sight picture is not necessary. If your alignment is center of mass or on a head shot and you're using 00 or number 4 buck you will not miss the target at these short distances.

IMO, and that's all it is, I would never use a red dot or any type scope on a shotgun that is solely dedicated to home or self defense. Why? Because it takes time to transition and get your sight picture. Time you may not have and secondly the red dot or scope changes your visual point. In the scenario I described above your vision throughout the situations remains focused on two points - the front sight post and the intruder and if you need to take a second shot you are already on target not looking through a red dot or scope.

I'd recomend you set up a number of targets at different ranges and practice both using your red dot and only using the front sight post and see which one works for you.

There are some other differences to consider depending if your have the ability to use both of your eyes vice a single eye in these scenarios but that's well beyond this initial discussion.

Regards

 

[old mossy]

Also,,,,,,,,, JMO

 

[Larry23433]

Apex, first and most importantly you need to find what works best for you in these situations and in your home environment.

That said, let me discuss a home / self defense scenario and one option that works. Most of these situations are up close and personal ranging from 3 to 5 or maybe 7 yards. And at these distances your reaction time to a threat is minimal. I'd carry the shotgun (your stated weapon of choice) in a high ready position so that you always have the front muzzle bead or blade in your field of vision and at the same time you're focused on the potential target. This approach assures the muzzle is always on the target and at these short distances (3-5 yards) you simply bring the butt stock up "near" eye level and fire. Unlike in hunting situation a "perfect" sight picture is not necessary. If your alignment is center of mass or on a head shot and you're using 00 or number 4 buck you will not miss the target at these short distances.

IMO, and that's all it is, I would never use a red dot or any type scope on a shotgun that is solely dedicated to home or self defense. Why? Because it takes time to transition and get your sight picture. Time you may not have and secondly the red dot or scope changes your visual point. In the scenario I described above your vision throughout the situations remains focused on two points - the front sight post and the intruder and if you need to take a second shot you are already on target not looking through a red dot or scope.

I'd recomend you set up a number of targets at different ranges and practice both using your red dot and only using the front sight post and see which one works for you.

There are some other differences to consider depending if your have the ability to use both of your eyes vice a single eye in these scenarios but that's well beyond this initial discussion.

Regards

Lots of good info thanks! The one thing I should have mentioned is that I use optics on almost all my guns because I have eye issues. I wear glasses, have an astigmatism in my right eye and I'm cross eye dominant (right handed but left eyed). So when trying to look through iron sights or even down a bead, the best way I can describe it is trying to take a picture of something and having a terrible camera that keeps focusing on the wrong thing lol. I find that with a red dot (actually green because red shows up blurry to me) I can easily keep both eyes open and move the dot on target without my goofball right eye going haywire. I'm quite capable of using iron sights or a bead but have more confidence in getting on target fast with a optic. I love simplicity and still always worry about my optic failing (which Is why I wanted co-witness setup) but it's just what works for my broken camera errrrr eyes lol.

But anyway I slapped a peice of foam on the stock for a temporary cheek riser and I'm gonna spend a couple more hours practicing today shooting from different positions and styles, shouldered and un-shouldered. And run some drills with the red dot off and see what feels right. Consensus seems to be that i just need to practice and see what works best for me.

 

[Rodburner]

The glasses thing is why I went with the laser saddle. Test shots while wearing my glasses, in perfect conditions proved to my satisfaction that in a less than optimal situation, if my target is painted, it’s gonna suffer. The popper only needs to be in my hands, my glasses become less relevant to a successful outcome. And before all the old chestnuts start dropping about target identification etc, my wife and grown kids all have keys. They won’t need to tear off the storm door, kick in the front door or bust a window. It’s home defense…not home improvement. Lol

 

[Larry23433]

Just my opinion. To me, it would depend on how big the spaces are inside your house, how long it would take for you to gather your wits, in a middle of the night scenario, and how fast the perp was crossing said space. As a shockwave owner with a laser saddle and a smaller house, I plan to dump as many of my 8 mini bucks into the green, well before the popper even gets waist high, off hand with no part of myself exposed. I personally couldn’t fathom swinging a stocked weapon all the way to my shoulder while being then forced to square up and sight down a barrel, much less thinking about proper face/firearm interaction. Outside, sure, that would be optimal IMO, but that is no longer an HD scenario. That’s what dogs, fences, claymore’s and rifles are for..lol I hope the other guys input helps you out and I hope you do never find out if it is an important part of the encounter.

Great info thanks, gotta ask... are you a welder?

 

[Rodburner]

Great info thanks, gotta ask... are you a welder?

Lol, I was laughingly accused of being a welder for 30+ years in the natural gas distribution industry. Luckily they paid me like one too. I’ve been retired for 9 years. All my welding now is personal use projects, gates, brackets,etc.

 

[Ernst]

Lots of good info thanks! The one thing I should have mentioned is that I use optics on almost all my guns because I have eye issues. I wear glasses, have an astigmatism in my right eye and I'm cross eye dominant (right handed but left eyed). So when trying to look through iron sights or even down a bead, the best way I can describe it is trying to take a picture of something and having a terrible camera that keeps focusing on the wrong thing lol. I find that with a red dot (actually green because red shows up blurry to me) I can easily keep both eyes open and move the dot on target without my goofball right eye going haywire. I'm quite capable of using iron sights or a bead but have more confidence in getting on target fast with a optic. I love simplicity and still always worry about my optic failing (which Is why I wanted co-witness setup) but it's just what works for my broken camera errrrr eyes lol.

But anyway I slapped a peice of foam on the stock for a temporary cheek riser and I'm gonna spend a couple more hours practicing today shooting from different positions and styles, shouldered and un-shouldered. And run some drills with the red dot off and see what feels right. Consensus seems to be that i just need to practice and see what works best for me.

Apex, fully understand and that's why I first said you need to see what best fits your situation and that certainly includes your vision.

One thing you might try on your front bead or blade is to paint it a color that suits your vision. You mentioned your preference for green.

I personally have all my front beads and blades on shotguns and rifles painted Glow Orange. And for me that color stands out in both daylight and at night. But everyone's eyes vary. The other thing that happens is the spill from your weapons light or even ambient light from behind you reflects off the paint and tends to "glow" in low light conditions. I've used both Testors and Krylon model paint and both hold up well. Plus if you don't like the first color simply paint over it til you find one that works. Only takes a drop of paint.

The other thing you might try is a tridium front sight. For some folks these really stand out.

We didn't talk about it but consistent placement of the butt stock in your shoulder pocket will greatly decrease your time on target if you're using a red dot or scope. After many thousand of rounds many operators can get to a point that repetitive mounting of the gun will put them on target 95% of the time without ever looking at your sights.

Good luck in your practice and let us know what you learn. I'm sure others with vision limitations will also learn from you.

Always glad to lend a helping hand.

Regards

 

[Larry23433]

This video is good at explaining my eye issue for those who don't understand cross eye dominance. Most people never even realize they have a dominant eye because "normal" peoples eyes follow their hands lol.

 

[Larry23433]

Apex, fully understand and that's why I first said you need to see what best fits your situation and that certainly includes your vision.

One thing you might try on your front bead or blade is to paint it a color that suits your vision. You mentioned your preference for green.

I personally have all my front beads and blades on shotguns and rifles painted Glow Orange. And for me that color stands out in both daylight and at night. But everyone's eyes vary. The other thing that happens is the spill from your weapons light or even ambient light from behind you reflects off the paint and tends to "glow" in low light conditions. I've used both Testors and Krylon model paint and both hold up well. Plus if you don't like the first color simply paint over it til you find one that works. Only takes a drop of paint.

The other thing you might try is a tridium front sight. For some folks these really stand out.

We didn't talk about it but consistent placement of the butt stock in your shoulder pocket will greatly decrease your time on target if you're using a red dot or scope. After many thousand of rounds many operators can get to a point that repetitive mounting of the gun will put them on target 95% of the time without ever looking at your sights.

Good luck in your practice and let us know what you learn. I'm sure others with vision limitations will also learn from you.

Always glad to lend a helping hand.

Regards

I use tritium dots on my sig 226 sights and my ghost ring has a tritium front blade dot with neon green around it. I have experimented with different stuff but green always works best with my eyes. Red, even lasers show up as big blurry stars to me instead of tight dots. It's an issue with having an astigmatism. For some reason green color lasers or reticles don't do this and I see them clearly. I also see holographic sights better than red dots but I can't afford good holographic optics lol. The most expensive optic I can afford is my vortex venom I run on my sig 229 carry pistol. If I had unlimited money I'd have eotech holographic sights on everything lol.