AR-15 and Variants
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Re: Colt CIA?
Shooter, I just realized you have a Pachy revolver grip on your AR...
Shooter, I just realized you have a Pachy revolver grip on your AR...
Re: 60 & 100 Round Quad Stack AR Magazines
Although new to the AR, mags such as these have been around since WWII so it's not really ground breaking.
The Suomi coffin mags come to mind right off.
Also, Alliance Armament is building a Mac 11 upper that would use coffin mags as you can see in the pic and video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC2dwmlUlAY[/youtube]
Although new to the AR, mags such as these have been around since WWII so it's not really ground breaking.
The Suomi coffin mags come to mind right off.
Also, Alliance Armament is building a Mac 11 upper that would use coffin mags as you can see in the pic and video.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC2dwmlUlAY[/youtube]
Ripsnortr
20g
Re: 60 & 100 Round Quad Stack AR Magazines
I have to wonder if a double drum mag is better only because of the legnth of the quad stack.
I had just never seen anything other than a double stack before and I thought it was pretty damned cool. But looks like everything old is new again. lol
I have to wonder if a double drum mag is better only because of the legnth of the quad stack.
I had just never seen anything other than a double stack before and I thought it was pretty damned cool. But looks like everything old is new again. lol
Re: 60 & 100 Round Quad Stack AR Magazines
I'll be honest, I don't really care for the Cmags. Aside from the extra weight, they're pretty wide and require graphite dry lube to work properly.
And cost wise, 4 regular thirty rounders hold more bullets for less than $50 compared to ??? for the Surefire and more than $150 for the cheap chinese knockoff beta's.
Aside from that, I know a guy on another forum that owns a registered M16 and continually doing mag dumps like the video you linked may look awesome, but it's dangerous for the guy doing it and here's what it does to the gun. Besides obviously melting the gas tube, if it ruptures, you have a single shot that requires using the charging handle to manually extract every shot.
As for the SMG video I linked above, it is blowback action and doesn't have a gas tube, so it doesn't really affect that kind of gun the way it does in an AR.
I'll be honest, I don't really care for the Cmags. Aside from the extra weight, they're pretty wide and require graphite dry lube to work properly.
And cost wise, 4 regular thirty rounders hold more bullets for less than $50 compared to ??? for the Surefire and more than $150 for the cheap chinese knockoff beta's.
Aside from that, I know a guy on another forum that owns a registered M16 and continually doing mag dumps like the video you linked may look awesome, but it's dangerous for the guy doing it and here's what it does to the gun. Besides obviously melting the gas tube, if it ruptures, you have a single shot that requires using the charging handle to manually extract every shot.
As for the SMG video I linked above, it is blowback action and doesn't have a gas tube, so it doesn't really affect that kind of gun the way it does in an AR.
S
SHOOTER13
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Re: Colt CIA?
SNIPER wrote: "Shooter, I just realized you have a Pachy revolver grip on your AR..."
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Yes I do...bought it the same day as the AR. Provides a good "grip"...
SNIPER wrote: "Shooter, I just realized you have a Pachy revolver grip on your AR..."
============================================================
Yes I do...bought it the same day as the AR. Provides a good "grip"...
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Re: Colt CIA?
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Early models had a 1:14 rate of twist for the original 55 grain bullets. This was changed to 1:12 when it was found that 1:14 was insufficient to stabilize a bullet when fired in cold weather.
Now most recent rifles have a 1:7 or 1:9 twist rate...with 1:9 being the standard. The reason for the 1:7 twist is mainly to stabilize the M856 tracer bullet, which is much longer than other bullets, and to use loads utilizing the heavier, 75-77 grain match bullets currently used by Spec-Ops troops.
There is much controversy and speculation as to how differing twist rates affect ballistics and terminal performance with varying loads, but heavier projectiles tend to perform better with faster rifling rates. Additionally, the various non .223 / 5.56 calibers have their own particular twist rate, such as 1:10 thru 1:12 for 6.8x43mm SPC...1:10 for 7.62x39mm...and 1:12 for 7.62x51mm NATO.
Rossignol said:
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Early models had a 1:14 rate of twist for the original 55 grain bullets. This was changed to 1:12 when it was found that 1:14 was insufficient to stabilize a bullet when fired in cold weather.
Now most recent rifles have a 1:7 or 1:9 twist rate...with 1:9 being the standard. The reason for the 1:7 twist is mainly to stabilize the M856 tracer bullet, which is much longer than other bullets, and to use loads utilizing the heavier, 75-77 grain match bullets currently used by Spec-Ops troops.
There is much controversy and speculation as to how differing twist rates affect ballistics and terminal performance with varying loads, but heavier projectiles tend to perform better with faster rifling rates. Additionally, the various non .223 / 5.56 calibers have their own particular twist rate, such as 1:10 thru 1:12 for 6.8x43mm SPC...1:10 for 7.62x39mm...and 1:12 for 7.62x51mm NATO.
Re: 60 & 100 Round Quad Stack AR Magazines
Not a big fan of uber high-cap AR mags either.
To John A's point, they usually require an excessive amount of maintenance to keep them running and usually end up collecting dust. The only exception for me are the old 75rd AK drums. Those things are built like tanks and are hard to kill. The weight is always an issue though. When it comes to my AR's, I'm load'n up a bunch of 30rd Pmags...
Not a big fan of uber high-cap AR mags either.
To John A's point, they usually require an excessive amount of maintenance to keep them running and usually end up collecting dust. The only exception for me are the old 75rd AK drums. Those things are built like tanks and are hard to kill. The weight is always an issue though. When it comes to my AR's, I'm load'n up a bunch of 30rd Pmags...
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Re: Colt CIA?
Really hard to tell without a serial number...does the receiver have a forward assist ?
Really hard to tell without a serial number...does the receiver have a forward assist ?
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Re: 60 & 100 Round Quad Stack AR Magazines
I feel the same...got more than enough 30 rnd mags pre loaded and bagged for a quick grab for both the AR and AK when needed.
Only have one high cap drum each for my AR and AK...and they were bought for fun, not practicality.
Just my 2 cents...YMMV
I feel the same...got more than enough 30 rnd mags pre loaded and bagged for a quick grab for both the AR and AK when needed.
Only have one high cap drum each for my AR and AK...and they were bought for fun, not practicality.
Just my 2 cents...YMMV
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Re: Colt CIA?
Colt's first two models produced after the acquisition of the rifle from ArmaLite were the 601 and 602, and these rifles were in many ways clones of the original ArmaLite rifle (in fact, these rifles were often found stamped Colt ArmaLite AR-15, Property of the U.S. Government caliber .223, and no reference to being a M16). The 601 and 602 are easily identified by their flat lower receivers without raised surfaces around the magazine well and occasionally green or brown furniture. The 601 was adopted first of any of the rifles by the USAF, and was quickly supplemented with the XM16 (Colt Model 602) and later the M16 (Colt Model 604) as improvements were made. There was also a limited purchase of 602s, and a number of both of these rifles found their way to a number of Special Operations units then operating in South East Asia, most notably the U.S. Navy SEALs. The only major difference between the 601 and 602 is the switch from the original 1:14-inch rifling twist to the more common 1:12-inch twist. These weapons were equipped with a triangular charging handle and a bolt hold open device that lacked a raised lower engagement surface. The bolt hold open device had a slanted and serrated surface that had to be engaged with a bare thumb, index finger, or thumb nail because of the lack of this surface.
The first M16 variant adopted by the U.S. Air Force had triangular handguards, butt stocks without a compartment for the storage of a cleaning kit, a three-pronged flash suppressor, and no forward assist. Timeframe 1962. January 1963...McNamara ordered a halt to M14 production.
The M16A1 was the finalized production model adopted by the US Army in 1967 and was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier.
The US Marines were the first branch of the U.S. Armed Forces to adopt the M16A2 in the early/mid 1980s.
Modifications to the M16A2 were extensive. In addition to the new rifling, the barrel was made with a greater thickness in front of the front sight post to resist bending in the field and to allow a longer period of sustained fire without overheating. The rest of the barrel was maintained at the original thickness to enable the M203 grenade launcher to be attached. The front sight was now a square post with 4 detent positions, adjustable for vertical zeroing by using a cartridge, nail or special tool. A new adjustable rear sight was added, allowing the rear sight to be dialed in for specific range settings between 300 and 800 meters to take full advantage of the ballistic characteristics of the new SS109 rounds and to allow windage adjustments without the need of a tool or cartridge. The flash suppressor was again modified, this time to be closed on the bottom so it would not kick up dirt or snow when being fired from the prone position, and acting as a recoil compensator. The front grip was modified from the original triangular shape to a round one, which better fitted smaller hands and could be fitted to older models of the M16. The new handguards were also symmetrical so that armories need not separate left and right spares. The handguard retention ring was tapered to make it easier to install and uninstall the handguards. A notch for the middle finger was added to the pistol grip, as well as more texture to enhance the grip. The buttstock was lengthened by 5⁄8 inches. The new buttstock became ten times stronger than the original due to advances in polymer technology since the early 1960s. Original M16 stocks were made from fiberglass-impregnated resin; the newer stocks were engineered from DuPont Zytel glass-filled thermoset polymers. The new stock included a fully textured polymer buttplate for better grip on the shoulder, and retained a panel for accessing a small compartment inside the stock, often used for storing a basic cleaning kit. The heavier bullet reduces muzzle velocity from 3,200 feet per second, to about 3,050 feet per second. The A2 also uses a faster twist rifling to allow the use of a trajectory-matched tracer round. A spent case deflector was incorporated into the upper receiver immediately behind the ejection port to prevent cases from striking left-handed users.
The action was also modified, replacing the fully automatic setting with a three-round burst setting. When using a fully automatic weapon, poorly trained troops often hold down the trigger and "spray" when under fire. The U.S. Army concluded that three-shot groups provide an optimum combination of ammunition conservation, accuracy and firepower.
The subject firearm you describe could be anything from a hybrid to a cobbled together year mismatched upper and lower receiver...no way for me to tell. I'd be pretty sure the CIA didn't mark or brand any firearm with CIA...so it's a buyer beware thing. No provenance...no letter from Colt saying this serial # was shipped to CIA, Langley VA...(which won't happen either)...don't buy because "tag sez so"... For that price, like the man said...you can build your own ! Just my 2 cents...
Colt's first two models produced after the acquisition of the rifle from ArmaLite were the 601 and 602, and these rifles were in many ways clones of the original ArmaLite rifle (in fact, these rifles were often found stamped Colt ArmaLite AR-15, Property of the U.S. Government caliber .223, and no reference to being a M16). The 601 and 602 are easily identified by their flat lower receivers without raised surfaces around the magazine well and occasionally green or brown furniture. The 601 was adopted first of any of the rifles by the USAF, and was quickly supplemented with the XM16 (Colt Model 602) and later the M16 (Colt Model 604) as improvements were made. There was also a limited purchase of 602s, and a number of both of these rifles found their way to a number of Special Operations units then operating in South East Asia, most notably the U.S. Navy SEALs. The only major difference between the 601 and 602 is the switch from the original 1:14-inch rifling twist to the more common 1:12-inch twist. These weapons were equipped with a triangular charging handle and a bolt hold open device that lacked a raised lower engagement surface. The bolt hold open device had a slanted and serrated surface that had to be engaged with a bare thumb, index finger, or thumb nail because of the lack of this surface.
The first M16 variant adopted by the U.S. Air Force had triangular handguards, butt stocks without a compartment for the storage of a cleaning kit, a three-pronged flash suppressor, and no forward assist. Timeframe 1962. January 1963...McNamara ordered a halt to M14 production.
The M16A1 was the finalized production model adopted by the US Army in 1967 and was essentially the same weapon as the M16 with the addition of a forward assist and corresponding notches in the bolt carrier.
The US Marines were the first branch of the U.S. Armed Forces to adopt the M16A2 in the early/mid 1980s.
Modifications to the M16A2 were extensive. In addition to the new rifling, the barrel was made with a greater thickness in front of the front sight post to resist bending in the field and to allow a longer period of sustained fire without overheating. The rest of the barrel was maintained at the original thickness to enable the M203 grenade launcher to be attached. The front sight was now a square post with 4 detent positions, adjustable for vertical zeroing by using a cartridge, nail or special tool. A new adjustable rear sight was added, allowing the rear sight to be dialed in for specific range settings between 300 and 800 meters to take full advantage of the ballistic characteristics of the new SS109 rounds and to allow windage adjustments without the need of a tool or cartridge. The flash suppressor was again modified, this time to be closed on the bottom so it would not kick up dirt or snow when being fired from the prone position, and acting as a recoil compensator. The front grip was modified from the original triangular shape to a round one, which better fitted smaller hands and could be fitted to older models of the M16. The new handguards were also symmetrical so that armories need not separate left and right spares. The handguard retention ring was tapered to make it easier to install and uninstall the handguards. A notch for the middle finger was added to the pistol grip, as well as more texture to enhance the grip. The buttstock was lengthened by 5⁄8 inches. The new buttstock became ten times stronger than the original due to advances in polymer technology since the early 1960s. Original M16 stocks were made from fiberglass-impregnated resin; the newer stocks were engineered from DuPont Zytel glass-filled thermoset polymers. The new stock included a fully textured polymer buttplate for better grip on the shoulder, and retained a panel for accessing a small compartment inside the stock, often used for storing a basic cleaning kit. The heavier bullet reduces muzzle velocity from 3,200 feet per second, to about 3,050 feet per second. The A2 also uses a faster twist rifling to allow the use of a trajectory-matched tracer round. A spent case deflector was incorporated into the upper receiver immediately behind the ejection port to prevent cases from striking left-handed users.
The action was also modified, replacing the fully automatic setting with a three-round burst setting. When using a fully automatic weapon, poorly trained troops often hold down the trigger and "spray" when under fire. The U.S. Army concluded that three-shot groups provide an optimum combination of ammunition conservation, accuracy and firepower.
The subject firearm you describe could be anything from a hybrid to a cobbled together year mismatched upper and lower receiver...no way for me to tell. I'd be pretty sure the CIA didn't mark or brand any firearm with CIA...so it's a buyer beware thing. No provenance...no letter from Colt saying this serial # was shipped to CIA, Langley VA...(which won't happen either)...don't buy because "tag sez so"... For that price, like the man said...you can build your own ! Just my 2 cents...
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Re: Colt CIA?
Now, that's worth saving your $$ for...
Great round the 7.62x51mm NATO...and good capacity...twenty rounds!!
Designed in 1954, it was the standard issue U.S. battle rifle from 1959 to 1964...marking it the one with the shortest service life. The M14 rifle remained the standard rifle for U.S. Army Basic Training and troops stationed in Europe until 1970.
But, it's still dusted off when the US Military needs something hard hitting that can reach out to 1000+ yards.
Now, that's worth saving your $$ for...
Great round the 7.62x51mm NATO...and good capacity...twenty rounds!!
Designed in 1954, it was the standard issue U.S. battle rifle from 1959 to 1964...marking it the one with the shortest service life. The M14 rifle remained the standard rifle for U.S. Army Basic Training and troops stationed in Europe until 1970.
But, it's still dusted off when the US Military needs something hard hitting that can reach out to 1000+ yards.
Re: Colt CIA?
Heck Yeah! I'd love to have one, and if I never find one, I'll go for the M1A from Springfield.
Ugh, but the point of the AR is for Allison. We may build one yet... so confused... I want more stuff than there are dollars to my name!
Heck Yeah! I'd love to have one, and if I never find one, I'll go for the M1A from Springfield.
Ugh, but the point of the AR is for Allison. We may build one yet... so confused... I want more stuff than there are dollars to my name!
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