Confronted a car burglar

[ThaGooch]

2 nights ago my fiance, newborn son, and I were asleep in our 2 bedroom Townhome, when I was awoken by my own thoughts. I did not have my phone on the nightstand and I remember that I had it on the dash of our SUV on the charger. I told my fiance that I was going to see if it was there.

4:15AM.

I walked downstairs and started to pass our Patio door long hanging blinds. 1 is broken so it does not close all the way. Something caught my eye, so I walked up to the blind. There were 2 men going down the line on all the cars checking to see if one was unlocked. 1 checked doors, the second had a flashlight looking for valuables.

I marched up stairs for jeans and asskickin boots....oh yeah....and my pepper sneezer!

Told my finace what I saw and that I was going to head out there to confront them. We just had her cell phone because I still could not remember where mine was so I grabbed it and dialed 911, but not until I....

Ran out the front door towards my SUV, I pressed the panic button and the alarm sounded. I opened the door grabbed my flashlight, spotted the guys as they were running to the dead end in our "L" shaped "one way in, one way out" Barbed wired gated parking lot.

After they kept scrambling and I kept getting closer, I decided to head back for my mossberg that I left by the front door. Walking back towards the gentlemen I raised the gun turned on the full 315 Lumens of light that is mounted to the gun at the men. They ran behind some cars in the furthest corner.

Then I called 911.

I live in Dallas, TX.

It is city out here so crimes occur daily. After waiting 30 minutes I see cops go to every community around ours...but not ours.

50 miniutes later I called 911 again. I told them that I could hear the men talking and poking their heads out. I kept having to change positions so in case they were armed they would be less likely to peg me from standing in the same spot. I said if there is not a cop here in 5 minutes I am going in after the bastards.

Cops showed up, the Mossberg went back inside. Cops cleared the corner....nothing.

The damn moon crickets had enough time over there to dig under the gate and slip out.

After I got back to bed and started my new day, I started to think to myself....in this situation I would have been in a better position with a Pistol. Its hard to operate a phone and hold a shotgun at the same time.

I (of course) stand by Glock. So I thought about getting a Glock 17 with a mounted light.

My question is would it be better? I have always ran scenarios in my head of home invasions...never ran down a scenario of having to leave my house with the shotgun.

And here she is.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7352

The Light that lit these guys up
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=258&start=175

 

[MikeD]

Personally I would not put myself in harms way and chase down some guys that tried to break in to my car. I would definitely stop them in the act but I would not pursue them

Granted, If I had done what you did in my state I would have been the one arrested if not shot when the police arrived so I have a different perspective on things.

It's a toss up as to whether or not a handgun would be better. Yes it might be easier to talk on the phone but in terms of accuracy, you will still want both hands supporting the firearm. I have a light on my G19 but I need my support hand to activate it.

 

[mingaa]

Yes to the Glock with a good light. The more tools at your disposal the better. I have 3 guns with lights - pistol, shotgun, rifle.

Even in TX (imho) honorable as the effort might have been you may have been very close to OR over the legal line ( TX residents, chime in if I'm off base) - if another LEO had taken a different approach to the situation you could have been in a very tough position. Just my opinion/2 bits...

 

[LAZY EYED SNIPER]

I'm not in Texas anymore, but the state allows residents to use deadly force in defense of their lives and even property both inside and outside of their home.

Still, once the individuals had abandoned your car in an attempt to flee that's where your legal justification for use of deadly force ended. Holding them at gunpoint until police arrive is one thing, but had you fired your weapon as the individuals attempted to leave the scene without your property you would most likely be facing charges for unlawful discharge of a firearm, attempted murder, or even a murder charge had one or both of them been killed. From a legal standpoint, once they try to leave they are no longer a threat and it is usually in your best interests just to let them go...

 

[nitesite]

"So there I wuz......"

I actually really enjoyed reading your account. Thank You.

 

[mingaa]

I'm not in Texas anymore, but the state allows residents to use deadly force in defense of their lives and even property both inside and outside of their home.

Still, once the individuals had abandoned your car in an attempt to flee that's where your legal justification for use of deadly force ended. Holding them at gunpoint until police arrive is one thing, but had you fired your weapon as the individuals attempted to leave the scene without your property you would most likely be facing charges for unlawful discharge of a firearm, attempted murder, or even a murder charge had one or both of them been killed. From a legal standpoint, once they try to leave they are no longer a threat and it is usually in your best interests just to let them go...

Thanks Les. I know MO law better and have had my car broken into. If I'm IN the car Castle Doctrine has my back I can use deadly force against a threat as if in my home. Outside my home (defending my personal property or not) I can Stand My Ground without any worries but if the threat retreats there is not much that I can do beyond pursuing a 'citizen arrest' which has some pitfalls as well and in that process you lose the protection (provided for in the other two instances) from future civil action.

I'm all for shutting down the BGs but I also try and make decisions that are not going to derail my whole life in the process.

 

[ThaGooch]

Covering my basis is always at the top of my list when it comes to situations that call for confrontations. But being from the small town that I am from we handle things quite a bit different than they do in big city Dallas. I would have not shot at the men backs to me. Should I had fired the weapon at the moon?.....yes. I was shot at officer! No one could prove that I fired my shotgun, except who? the criminals? nope. Because the cops got there too late. Thanks for the responses though.

 

[mingaa]

Covering my basis is always at the top of my list when it comes to situations that call for confrontations. But being from the small town that I am from we handle things quite a bit different than they do in big city Dallas. I would have not shot at the men backs to me. Should I had fired the weapon at the moon?.....yes. I was shot at officer! No one could prove that I fired my shotgun, except who? the criminals? nope. Because the cops got there too late. Thanks for the responses though.

Well, you clearly made a decision not to shoot the BGs. As far as covering your bases are you suggesting that a shot (miss) from your shotgun could have simulated a shot at you from the BGs? Then, claiming that was a shot taken at you that you could have shot and killed the BGs?

I don't think that covers your bases well at all even if the small town LEOs know the BGs and they have a record. One of the now deceased BGs better have a gun on them. Your claim is not that you saw a gun but that a shot was fired. I'm no forensic scientist but it' going to be obvious how many shots were fired from your weapon and even if a BG has a gun on him it is easy to determine where and if it was fired at the scene. Drop gun - even recently fired the BG will not have residue from any shot allegedly fired.

I grew up in a small town where everybody knew each other and under some circumstances deals were made and heads were turned as promises were put in place. At some level that goes away - swap positions with the LEOs. Would you stick your neck out on the scenario as described ( if I understood you correctly)?? If the chief and the coroner don't follow or a family member of the deceased makes a stink the LEOs are going down too. Careers gone - hello jail more than likely.

Am I missing something in what you suggest??!

 

[ThaGooch]

Covering my basis is always at the top of my list when it comes to situations that call for confrontations. But being from the small town that I am from we handle things quite a bit different than they do in big city Dallas. I would have not shot at the men backs to me. Should I had fired the weapon at the moon?.....yes. I was shot at officer! No one could prove that I fired my shotgun, except who? the criminals? nope. Because the cops got there too late. Thanks for the responses though.

Well, you clearly made a decision not to shoot the BGs. As far as covering your bases are you suggesting that a shot (miss) from your shotgun could have simulated a shot at you from the BGs? Then, claiming that was a shot taken at you that you could have shot and killed the BGs?

I don't think that covers your bases well at all even if the small town LEOs know the BGs and they have a record. One of the now deceased BGs better have a gun on them. Your claim is not that you saw a gun but that a shot was fired. I'm no forensic scientist but it' going to be obvious how many shots were fired from your weapon and even if a BG has a gun on him it is easy to determine where and if it was fired at the scene. Drop gun - even recently fired the BG will not have residue from any shot allegedly fired.

I grew up in a small town where everybody knew each other and under some circumstances deals were made and heads were turned as promises were put in place. At some level that goes away - swap positions with the LEOs. Would you stick your neck out on the scenario as described ( if I understood you correctly)?? If the chief and the coroner don't follow or a family member of the deceased makes a stink the LEOs are going down too. Careers gone - hello jail more than likely.

Am I missing something in what you suggest??!

For someone who is confused about my response you sure do have a lot to say. And when I say small town I mean when a kid is disrespecting a woman you walk up and pop the kid upside the head and tell hem to mind himself, a small town place where you see an elderly person mowing the lawn on a hot day you pull over and finish the job for them, a small town where you offer someone to cut infront of you, a small town where if I am grilling some steaks on the grill I better make sure I got enough for my family, street, and make sure you have extras just in case.

So when I say I cover my bases I mean I rack my shotgun point it to the sky and pull the trigger. If this does not show them that they are not welcomed back, and if they want to turn around and try their odds with me...I step back in my house leave the door open turn off the lights and wait. No need to chance anyone sending off random fire into windows of my neighbors kids room, SHTF or not.

Now if by any chance you misunderstood what I meant by this response....

I sincerely apologize to you my good sir. Please help me to better help us come together so we can make this a positive conversation.

 

[mingaa]

Covering my basis is always at the top of my list when it comes to situations that call for confrontations. But being from the small town that I am from we handle things quite a bit different than they do in big city Dallas. I would have not shot at the men backs to me. Should I had fired the weapon at the moon?.....yes. I was shot at officer! No one could prove that I fired my shotgun, except who? the criminals? nope. Because the cops got there too late. Thanks for the responses though.

You are correct I am confused by your response. We seem to have a fairly broad communication gap. Disregard my comments. Please rest assured, however, that I am more than familiar with what a small town is sir. My home to age 18 - New Philadelphia Ohio in the rolling green hills next to Amish country is well within the definition of 'small town'.

 

[nitesite]

ThaGooch~

Please go back to playing Call of Duty Black Ops, spend time with your fiance and newborn, and leave us alone.

Thanks.

 

[Itsricmo]

lol Does the name "Gecko 45" ring any bells??
If this actually happened, I commend you on your attempt to intercept the Bad guys.. However, I can agree with everyone else on this subject... a few decisions should have been better thought out and should be considered for change should a future event occur. Firing a shot without being justifiably threatened only makes YOU the bad guy... Unlawfully killing.. is that even something to consider, regardless of the fact they were trying to rob you?

 

[nitesite]

.... regardless of the fact they were trying to rob you?

Rick~~

By his own description they were not trying to rob anyone. Touching door handles and flashlighting the interiors of cars is suspicious but it isn't a crime. Activity like that might get a Trespassing Order against them if they are still around when the po-po arrive. Breaking into a car is burglary/theft, but it isn't trying to rob anyone (robbery = face 2 face and use of force/weapon).

 

[Itsricmo]

My apologies for improper terminology. I was just being vague and wasn't too concerned about terms when addressing a subject such as this one... Here I will fix it..

...regardless of the fact they were being suspicious and probably trying to steal goods from your cars and the neighbors belongings from their's...

Does that meet your standards? If his local 5-0 is anything like mine they weren't out busting crimes they were at the pizza shop letting the Bank 1 block away get robbed True Story... Ask Rjpoog1989 about the FNB Robbery details

 

[mjadams61]

House Burgler

ThaGooch I understand what you are saying but please read.

The taking of a human life is not easy, even if it is justified, I know I been down that road a few times in a past I left behind. It made me a better person I beleave because I have no doubt in my mind I can do it when it comes to defending my love ones, any who dwell in my home or defending my property. I had to once when a armed burgler broke into my home. I lived in a 2 story house and my bedroom was upstairs and I had a girlfriend at the time that was 7 months pregnant. I woke hearing a noise downstairs and I crack the bedroom door and saw a flashlight beam downstairs.

This was before cellphones and the only phone I had was downstairs. I had a 1911 I grab from the nightstand and got my girlfriend to hide on the other side of the bed. I crack the door again and I saw the person was walking up the stairs. I waited until he got to the top and open the door all the way and I said in a load enough voice "Stop MF" as I pointed my gun at him. Well he had a gun and fire at me and missed, I fired back twice and did not miss. 2 rounds in the chest. I told my girlfriend to stay hidden in case there was others and I went to look.

I went and check and he was dead and notice he look like he was a teenager. I called 911 after searching the rest of the house and the sherriff came out with the fire dept and ambulance. The sherrif was and old family friend and knew me and my family along with the district attorney who was also a volunter fireman. I lived in Texas at the time before the castle law but after taking my girlfriend and mine statement and noticing she was pregnant the sherriff and district attorney justified the shooting because there was no way my girlfriend and I could escape danger being on the 2nd story. I found out later the kid was 16 and had took his moms 380 and my house was the 2nd one hit hit that night.

Even though that and others happen long ago and they was all deem justified I still think of what happen once in awhile and see their faces. I always wish there might had been another way but there wasnt.

 

[nitesite]

My apologies for improper terminology. I was just being vague and wasn't too concerned about terms when addressing a subject such as this one... Here I will fix it..

...regardless of the fact they were being suspicious and probably trying to steal goods from your cars and the neighbors belongings from their's...

Does that meet your standards? If his local 5-0 is anything like mine they weren't out busting crimes they were at the pizza shop letting the Bank 1 block away get robbed True Story... Ask Rjpoog1989 about the FNB Robbery details

I wasn't trying to be confrontational, my young friend.

 

[rjpoog1989]

Does that meet your standards? If his local 5-0 is anything like mine they weren't out busting crimes they were at the pizza shop letting the Bank 1 block away get robbed True Story... Ask Rjpoog1989 about the FNB Robbery details

:roll: :roll:

 

[rjpoog1989]

Re: House Burgler

ThaGooch I understand what you are saying but please read.

The taking of a human life is not easy, even if it is justified, I know I been down that road a few times in a past I left behind. It made me a better person I beleave because I have no doubt in my mind I can do it when it comes to defending my love ones, any who dwell in my home or defending my property. I had to once when a armed burgler broke into my home. I lived in a 2 story house and my bedroom was upstairs and I had a girlfriend at the time that was 7 months pregnant. I woke hearing a noise downstairs and I crack the bedroom door and saw a flashlight beam downstairs.

This was before cellphones and the only phone I had was downstairs. I had a 1911 I grab from the nightstand and got my girlfriend to hide on the other side of the bed. I crack the door again and I saw the person was walking up the stairs. I waited until he got to the top and open the door all the way and I said in a load enough voice "Stop MF" as I pointed my gun at him. Well he had a gun and fire at me and missed, I fired back twice and did not miss. 2 rounds in the chest. I told my girlfriend to stay hidden in case there was others and I went to look.

I went and check and he was dead and notice he look like he was a teenager. I called 911 after searching the rest of the house and the sherriff came out with the fire dept and ambulance. The sherrif was and old family friend and knew me and my family along with the district attorney who was also a volunter fireman. I lived in Texas at the time before the castle law but after taking my girlfriend and mine statement and noticing she was pregnant the sherriff and district attorney justified the shooting because there was no way my girlfriend and I could escape danger being on the 2nd story. I found out later the kid was 16 and had took his moms 380 and my house was the 2nd one hit hit that night.

Even though that and others happen long ago and they was all deem justified I still think of what happen once in awhile and see their faces. I always wish there might had been another way but there wasnt.

I agree completely with what you're saying. While it was necessary I'm sure it does not sit well with you. I do believe I would feel the same way.

 

[LoveMeSome590]

After reading what TheGooch has to say I thinks its safe to say you sir are more of a liability to your community than an asset. You should seriously look over your responsibility to own a firearm or put it down and pick up a whistle.

 

[ripjack13]

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