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Seeking opinions on unconventional defensive shells

Discussion in 'Tactical And Home Defense' started by johncard, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. LAZY EYED SNIPER

    LAZY EYED SNIPER Overwatch Staff Member Global Moderator Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    21,109
    The Win.PDX1 was one of several rounds I tested a year or so ago...

    http://www.mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/buckshot-pattern-test.9802/

    Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 Defender:
    MFG#: S12PDX1 - 3 pellet 00 Buckshot over 1 oz slug


    [​IMG]


    The PDX1 buck and ball put up a nice 5.25" spread. If a giant hole in the chest surrounded by three smaller holes isn't enough, the wad smacked Mr. target right in the teeth. I have to say this was a LOT better result than I expected for this type of round...

    [​IMG]

    I've patterned many of these rounds with results consistent to the target posted above. While the pattern inevitably changes with each shot, at 30 feet this particular round would have punctured the heart, both lungs, and the liver. I'd call that a pretty effective threat stopper...
    old mossy, mingaa and oli700 like this.
  2. NYmossyMike

    NYmossyMike .270 WIN

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    131
    Look pretty effective to me LES! I doubt the biggest toughest home invader is charging after getting hit with that.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
    mingaa likes this.
  3. oli700

    oli700 12g Supporter "Philanthropist"

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    9,270
    to me a gimmick is something that doesn't work trying to be passed off as something that does.

    PDX1 works

    Sure there are many other options , some better , some worse but they all work.

    Now Bolo and flachette shells are gimmicky, might be a super rare occasion that they are a viable choice but for the most part every other defensive choice is as good or better for fighting

    As far as projectiles going through walls and such, your better off with buck or a foster slug than you might think.
    The mass on a single 00 buck pellet is around 50 grains (22lr is 40) and doesn't keep pushing through material like a 115gr 9mm for example.
    A foster slug deforms and caves in on the hollow , lots of mass keeps it going but in 2x4's and general house contrition tears them apart quick because of soft lead and hollow construction.......travel trailers and mobile homes are a different story.
  4. old mossy

    old mossy Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  5. not enuff

    not enuff .22LR

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    So I'm thinking I need to ditch my #2 and go with RIO 00 and maybe throw in some PDX1. My concern was overpenetration of 00 in a stick home, no brick, and nieghbors house about 5 yards away.
  6. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Moderator Supporter

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    3,874
    Slugs and 00 Buck lose significant velocity compared to rifle and pistol rounds over the same distance. 00 buck should be fine and wont kill your neighbor. Actually I literally haven't heard of one instance that this particular concern has ever happened... have any of you?
  7. old mossy

    old mossy Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    12,873
    I believe each housing situation is a little different and ammo used accordingly.

    Nope,never heard of the neighbor getting hit.
  8. mbshop

    mbshop .270 WIN

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    but I sure don't want to be the first to disprove that. I really think that 00 buck and slugs are a terrible inside the house loads.
    I still suggest and use either #1 buck or #4 buck for inside use.
  9. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Moderator Supporter

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    3,874
    Sounds like unfounded fears to me. 9mm an 45acp penetrate walls but nobody has a stink when they are used.
    oli700 likes this.
  10. mbshop

    mbshop .270 WIN

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    very true. but I again don't want to find that its not unfounded.
    most using handguns are very aware of the penetration issue and hopefully use extreme caution.
    one way is to use hollow points. regardless, you try to diminish any threat of over penetration.
  11. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    2,197
    Sounds like its time to do,some real world testing. I know of a few abandon houses around me, but don't know the property owners. Need to see if I can find some leftover construction materials.
  12. mbshop

    mbshop .270 WIN

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    430
    now that would be a great test ! hope you can get it done.
  13. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    May not be anytime soon. But building some false walls and shooting holes in them sounds fun.
  14. GunnyGene

    GunnyGene Racist old man BANNED

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    Besides the low probability of one of your neighbors being in the path of a 00 pellet or 2, by the time those pellets get thru drywall, insulation, chipboard, siding, siding, chipboard, insulation, drywall (in that order) and perhaps a couple 2x4's edge on, they will have lost so much punch that they likely couldn't penetrate a cardboard box. The way to prove this to yourself is to build a "box of truth" that simulates the intervening walls and shoot it, rather than guess about it.
  15. old mossy

    old mossy Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  16. mbshop

    mbshop .270 WIN

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    430
    soooo, I explained the issue to my wife and then for s&g I asked if I could shoot through our house towards the neighbors.
    I got a look that chilled me to the bone. so I assume that is a no go.
  17. dieselmudder

    dieselmudder .30-06 Elite Member "Philanthropist"

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    Its easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission.
  18. mbshop

    mbshop .270 WIN

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    Never met my wife have you. She is an absolute sweetheart.
    but once in the very early days of relationship I managed to bring out the she devil in her. Never ever ever again !
  19. not enuff

    not enuff .22LR

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    Thanks old mossy, I was looking for something like this.
  20. Water Monkey

    Water Monkey The man, the myth, the monkey Moderator Supporter

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    3,874
    A more accurate test would be to construct an adjacent building with siding, insulation, walls and a gel block on the other side to see if the projectile would have any lethality as far as penetration.
    old mossy likes this.

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