Shells that go too far into magazine

[bolivianram]

I recently used my 20ga on its first range trip. I also duplicated this issue with (spent) shells at home after cleaning. Firearm was fully disassembled and cleaned/oiled prior to use.

I have Remington Express Buckshot #3, Winchester AA target ammo and I think Winchester X #6 birdshot. I used the winchester rounds without any issue. The Remington occasionally I needed to rack the slide multiple times. I finally figured out what's happening, but not the cause.

It seems like the Express ammo, when pushed into the magazine, can get caught IN the magazine (1/4" or so) instead of the rim of the shell being out of it at the shell stop. If I wiggle it, it pops back out to sit on the edge of the magazine (and thus exactly like the Winchester rounds) and racking the slide chambers the round without any problems.

Besides changing brands, is there something mechanically to adjust or modify to fix this issue?

 

[LAZY EYED SNIPER]

I would disassemble the shotgun and remove the tube to check for any burrs or irregularities that may be causing the shells to hang up. If that's the problem, it should be an easy fix...

 

[bolivianram]

I don't feel anything in there but I guess I will have to get my hands on a vise to try to do this - doesn't sound like a fun project but I've got to make the gun run right, so it'll have to be done!

Anything I can do about the "Creeeeeaky" spring while I'm at it? Like nails on a chalkboard.

I took some photos tonight to show what I see. Please forgive the pajama pants and the cat hair (gave this some TLC with RemOil wipedown after the pics).

Here is a (spent, empty) round when it sits "too far" into the magazine:

and here is how it sits properly if i wiggle it around some to get it to come back out:

 

[John A.]

Besides maybe having a burr on the inside of the mag tube, the spring may be kinked.

I only mention this because it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of it happening.

But if you hear a lot of noise when the follower slides, I suspect there is something wrong going on in there from your description.

Out of curiosity, do you have your magazine limiter (1/4" dowel rod) handy do you? Do you think maybe somehow it's floating around inside of there? I'm just trying to think of things that are associated with the magazine and follower and spring and mag tube. That's really about all that will affect the function of the magazine.

 

[bolivianram]

The dowel is in there (I took it out, cut it down to allow more than just one shell at a time but remain within the legal waterfowl limits as that is how Bantam models are shipped, single shot).

I don't think the spring itself would cause this problem, although I suppose if the spring was really powerful it may force the shell lips over any burrs/irregularities that are present. I did not have ANY misfeeds when I was using the gun at the range, except for the times that my FIRST shot wouldn't load because of it being past this lip as pictured above. Racking the gun pretty hard solved it those couple of times (I didn't know enough to realize that the shell was in the wrong position visually), and the second/third shots fed just fine.

If I put my finger on the shell and "wiggle" it a little, it pretty forcefully moves into the proper position. More and more leads me to believe there is indeed a burr or maybe rust buildup (damn old display model gun!) that is causing this.

 

[John A.]

It is possible that it is a burr or rust. Anything that would restrict the follower movement.

Since it is so near where the shell goes out where the follower is getting stuck, have you field stripped the reciever and used a pencil to push the follower way back in there to try to see anything along the inside of the tube that would be causing it?

 

[old mossy]

sounds like a burr. i would take some scotch brite and do a little polishing job on the inside of the tube.

one other thing,,,,have you checked for any dents and dings?

 

[bolivianram]

I will do that tomorrow or sometime soon (just oiled the darn thing down! don't want to gum it up with fingerprints again at midnight now).

I don't believe the follower is stick because the shell itself isn't free to slide back and forth that quarter inch or so, and additionally once I barely even touch the shell it POPS right back into the proper position.

I just found another thread, http://www.shootersforum.com/shotguns-s ... 410-a.html , where a guy says regarding a similar issue: "There is a tiny lip that prevents the mag follower from coming out. It's possible that the mag tube is not screwed in all the way and there is a tiny gap between the end of the tube and the receiver, the rim of the cartridge would drop into the gap and cause issues unless centered in the mag tube."

So that could be it as well.

 

[John A.]

Just please keep us posted of what you find.

 

[old mossy]

take a look at the barrel lug where it screws into the mag tube,,,,,if it is not screwed in all the way to cause it like you say,you will see a large gap,,,,,

 

[bolivianram]

Spent about two hours last night trying to take the darn thing off. Tried to protect the end of the tube and use brute hand strength, pipe wrench at the end where the barrel threads in, channelocks you name it. I'll try again another day.

Here is the pic of my barrel lug. I'm trying to figure out what you mean when you say there will be a large gap here if the tube isn't in all the way - it looks like the farther in the mag tube is inserted into the receiver (ie, if the mag tube was shorter), the larger this gap would be.

 

[chrismetallica1]

As its been said 100% sounds like there is a burr or high spot in the mag tube. Take the tube off check it out. Make sure there are no dents or dings. If there aren't sand with wet and dry fine grit paper till the burr is gone. Just wrap some fine grit paper round a wooden dowel that fits inside the mag tube. After that you can always throw a 12g bore mop with a bit of polishing compound on down the tube. Just attach it to a cleaning rod and chuck it up in a cordless drill. Run it up and down the tube a few times at high speed. Should run smooth after that. I find that a liberal application of frog lube paste on the inside of mag tubes does the trick.

Other thing is swap the magazine spring out. Try a wolf spring just cut it to size Might want to replace the follower with a low drag one. GG&G and Nordic Components do good after market ones

If you cant take the mag nut off try a little heat with a heat gun. Don't use a torch its over kill. A strap wrench is good too

All the best

Chris

 

[old mossy]

Spent about two hours last night trying to take the darn thing off. Tried to protect the end of the tube and use brute hand strength, pipe wrench at the end where the barrel threads in, channelocks you name it. I'll try again another day.

Here is the pic of my barrel lug. I'm trying to figure out what you mean when you say there will be a large gap here if the tube isn't in all the way - it looks like the farther in the mag tube is inserted into the receiver (ie, if the mag tube was shorter), the larger this gap would be.

,,,,sorry,,,,,tube screwed in too much will give you larger gap.


like Chris mentioned,,,check the tube for a burr.

as far as taking off tube. try applying heat to break the loctite. usually a heat gun will do it.

 

[bolivianram]

Hair dryer + a pair of vice-grips (with the knowledge that at a later time i can re-blue tube or replace it) got it off. I gave up trying to protect the tube at the end, clamped them babies on and POP went the loctite bond. I was ecstatic.

I did not find any burrs inside the tube. The tube also solidly seats back into the threaded fitting. I think at this point that maybe I just need to fire a few hundred rounds through to wear off the sharp edge on the receiver (the lip that prevents the follower and spring from leaving the tube).

The spring is plenty powerful to pop these shells into position if I wiggle them, and I have had NO misfeeds for shells that are seated correctly against the shell stop.

I would love it if others reading this thread could try to replicate my issue, with your least-broken-in-model. As seen in the pictures earlier in the thread, I can make it happen by pushing a shell into the tube and then making it "catch" on the lip about 1/4" into the magazine (I can also intentionally make it NOT catch if I'm careful, to catch it on purpose takes a little bit of work, though my concern is of course with the times it happens when I'm not trying to do so intentionally). It is not contacting the shell stop or interrupt at that time. (The photos in Post #3 show the "stuck" and "normal" positions). Maybe this is just an Idiot Issue and not actually a problem with the gun, or something that breaks-in over time. Anyone able to replicate it?

Thank you!

 

[LTB45]

Since the shells are really not stuck that bad, the action of shooting the gun and pumping it probably sets the shell to the correct place in the tube.
I still think that you should polish the crap out of the inside of the tube.
The shells should not be getting stuck and you can fix this with some elbow grease.
I dont think that this will go away with use.

 

[bolivianram]

I don't know why I didn't do this when I had it open, but tonight I will mic up the diameter of the follower as well as the lip that I'm seeing, and see how much I can polish it down. Maybe there is a bit of leeway there.

 

[bolivianram]

So, I've been filing it for a bit now, just a tiny tiny bit at a time, but I still can get the shell to stay on the lip.

Here is an example of what it's like now, and note that this is with no interrupter or shell stop in place (just the receiver, and the tube assembly with spring and follower in place, is all I have on the gun). I can get it to catch where it is.

I can't see a way I could stop this unless the ones that don't do this are beveled somehow. Even if I file this lip away to almost nothing (still needs to catch the follower), it will still have a straight edge that could conceivably catch a shell edge.

Has anyone been able to replicate this on their own gun?

Thank you...

 

[LTB45]

I cannot replicate it with my 20ga.
Looks to me like the mag tube might be out-of-round.

 

[bolivianram]

I cannot replicate it with my 20ga.
Looks to me like the mag tube might be out-of-round.

I can catch it on this lip around 360 degrees. Ie I can push the shell up to get it to stick at the top, or any direction I like to get it to stick in other places; not just at one part of the tube.

 

[chrismetallica1]

Try checking the mad tube is fully round and straight. Get a wooden dowel same internal diameter as the tube and tap it through with a rubber mallet. If it still jams get a new tube