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Sighting In Your Mossberg Tactical .22 715T

Discussion in 'Mossberg 715T Tactical .22 Autoloader' started by GypsmJim, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. 2k2wranglerx

    2k2wranglerx .22LR

    Messages:
    18
    715T shoots WAY low and left

    Hi guys,

    my 715T shoots WAY left and low. so much so that the scope and red dot I have won't even compensate for it. I have the factory iron sights (flat top model) almost max'd out on windage adjustment.

    Any thoughts?
  2. ripjack13

    ripjack13 Resident Sawdust Maker Staff Member Administrator Supporter "Philanthropist"

    Messages:
    22,470
    Re: 715T shoots WAY low and left

    http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/ht/htsightin.htm

    Check your gun to make sure it's in good, safe working order.
    Make sure the ammunition you have is the correct cartridge for your gun. Use only the ammo your gun is marked for!
    Start out at close range; around 25 yards for a rifle, 15 yards with a handgun.
    Use a solid rest, and take your time. Before each shot, take a deep breath, let half of it out, then hold it.
    Fire two or three shots and note their location on the target. If they are fairly close together, you're ready to adjust your sights. If they're not, then you're probably not resting steadily or are flinching.
    Once you've shot a reasonably tight group (one or two inches with a rifle, two or three inches with a handgun), adjust your sights.
    Move the rear sight in the direction you want the bullet to go. For example, if you're shooting low, raise the rear sight. If you're shooting left, move the rear sight to the right.
    If you're using a scope, adjust the crosshairs in the direction indicated on the scope. If you're shooting low and left, turn the screws "up" and "right" the respective number of clicks (see tip 2 below).
    Shoot another group of two or three.
    Re-adjust your sights depending on where you shot the group in step 11.
    Repeat steps 11 & 12 until you're on target. For rifle shooting, you'll want to fine-tune the sights, usually at a distance of 100 yards. The point of impact will sometimes be noticeably different between 25 and 100 yards.

    Tips:

    ALWAYS keep guns pointed in a safe direction.
    With a scope, the per-click graduation will usually be marked, i.e. 1/4" per click at 100 yards. Remember this will make it 1/8" at 50 yards, etc. Estimate the distance you're off and adjust accordingly.
    Some "fixed" sights can be adjusted. If the rear sight is in a dovetail notch, you can drift it to correct for windage error. Do not hit it with a hammer! Use a brass drift and hammer or an adjusting tool, or if in doubt, have it done for you by a gunsmith.
  3. 2k2wranglerx

    2k2wranglerx .22LR

    Messages:
    18
    Ya this isn't my first rifle. My only thought is there's something out of wack with the stock. Since the stock and gun aren't really "connected". But all the plastic is together. No open seams

    I have it shooting on target at 50 yards. Hitting a 6" plate with the iron sights. But my windage is still about maxed out.
  4. 2k2wranglerx

    2k2wranglerx .22LR

    Messages:
    18
    And I get why this was moved but really it's not an issue sighting the rifle in. It's an issue with the rifle shooting so far off that the scope and red dot can't compensate.
  5. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    This may or may not help here but there is something i read about on the rimfire forum that i never even realy gave much thought about. The muzzle, the bullet on a .22 is such a small little projectile that it can get thrown off its track very easy.

    As the bullet exits the muzzle the blast that follows plays a big role on its flight path.

    When you clean your gun specially with cheap cleaning tools like i have, pay close attention to how you inser the brass rods. Most brass rods are in sections these sections of the rods arnt matched very well. If you get into a hurry when ramming those rods down into the barrel you can tear up the "Crown" of the gun and cause "burs" and accuracy issues.

    I just went threw this with an old rifle i got from my dad. Every time i shot it ide get a few that would group nice and then ide get these random flyers that were 2-3" out. I wrote it off to bad ammo or cheap bulk ammo. Later i found out that wasnt even the problem the crown was damaged. The edge of the barrel where the bullet exits the muzzle had little burs some how and that i believe was causing my accuracy issues.

    I bought a little tool off e-bay and some lapping compound (part of the kit) and cleaned it up and it was like night and day. I had the same issue with my sig mosquito but that required more work.

    Make sure your gun is safe, then inspect your muzzle. Look at it with a magnify glass and make sure it looks true and uniform and becareful when you clean it. Take it slow around the crown. A new gun can have flaws as did my sig.

    Top is before i lapped the crown, bottom is after
    [​IMG]

    This is the tool i bought off e-bay its really cheap and a good tool to have if you have other guns or are planning to get more in the future. It works in a drill
    [​IMG]

    This is before and after. It made a huge difference in accuracy.
    [​IMG]

    Yours may or may not have this but pay attention to the crown when you clean it dont tear it up it plays a big part in how the gun shoots.

    Here is my sig mosquito before and after also. It helped it as well

    This is how the crown looked from the factory, very torn up almost as if it wasnt finished ont he machine work or poor inspection. Bottom is after i recrowned it.
    [​IMG]

    And this is how it shot before, very sloppy it just peppered the target all over the place. After it actually tigntened up the groups and it now shoots a WHOLE lot better.
    [​IMG]

    Another thing i found is when using dirty cheap ammo, the powder blast will stain the muzzle. If you hold it in the light just right you can see a nice pattern of the blast. If it looks like a star and is uniform like this then the crown is good and its shooting like it should.
    [​IMG]

    If its not it wont look as uniform you will have long points or splat marks.
  6. leadgunner

    leadgunner .410

    Messages:
    31
    Re: 715T shoots WAY low and left

    Im having the same problems as yours with my 715T Flat top. Hitting Left and Low even after I maxed out the windage and elevation of rear sights.
  7. Springbok

    Springbok .22LR

    Messages:
    11
    Tactical .22 (715T): low and to the left

    This is a long post, but hopefully it will be of help to some.
    I recently purchased a 715T (flat top), and found that it shot way low and to the left. This is the problem that brought me to this forum. I found that others have the exact same problem.

    When I purchased the 715T, I immediately had a scope mounted (did not try iron sights). Rounds were splashing way low and to the left. I was able to correct the windage, but had to max out the elevation to hit center from only 50 yards (no adjustment room beyond that). Why have a scope if you can't use it beyond 50 yards? So, I returned the scope, thinking it was defective. Subsequently, I tried the iron sights and had the same problem, except I could not even zero it at 50 yards with elevation maxed. Hmmm, same problem with both the scope and iron sights!?!

    After searching this forum and the web in general, I found others were having the same problem. Interestingly, others also were unanimously low and to the left. Some adjusted the front sight pin or shimmed their scope mounts, which should not be necessary with a new rifle.

    So I'm thinking it must be the rifle itself. So I pulled everything off the top rails and eyed the length of them against a white background, and whada'ya know: they aren't straight! They dip left and right in different places and there is a bit of a hump on the rear rail, which bends sights(and scopes) upwards (decreasing elevation). The 715T is a plastic clam-shell and it is inexpensive, but that is no excuse. Even if it is only $330, it should shoot straight, or what's the point?

    BTW, the imperfections are small, but just 1/2 a degree is almost 9 mils. That's a whopping 32" at just a 100 yards!

    The gun shop is going to contact Mossberg and get some directions. I'll post an update when I find out more. I'll also try to get around to snapping a decent photo of the problem, and post it.

    My 1" riser has arrived and when my new scope arrives, I'll try mounting it on that. My thought is that a longish 13 slot aluminum riser may mount straight (ish) and overcome the imperfections on the rifle's plastic rail. I'll also post the results of that.

    Anyone else have suggestions, similar problems?

    BTW, other than this problem (hopefully resolvable), my son and I love this rifle. It is inexpensive and reliable. Using bulk Federal ammo, I only had 2 FTEs in >1000 rounds. Winchester ammo caused a multitude of jams in this particular rifle. No mag problems. Now if I can only get it to sight straight!

    Cheers,
    Springbok
  8. Springbok

    Springbok .22LR

    Messages:
    11
    leadgunner, 2k2wranglerx, dragonrail, jeffross1968, cuzi, fa1rshooter, and others with problems of the low and to left variety,

    have you taken a very close look down the length of your rails?

    Why is this problem consistently low and to the left (haven't read a single post of "up and right")? And why does it seem to be mostly with flat tops?

    I've posted my problem (and discovery) @:
    viewtopic.php?f=88&t=7767

    any thoughts/advice would be most welcome. ;)

    Cheers,
    Springbok
  9. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    What if you wedge the receiver in the case?

    You know how the receiver is mounted to the left side of the case? well loosen the screws that hold the receiver to the case and then wedge the front with some folded paper or something tighten the screws back down and then try it. You could shim the front also between the frame and the screw mount would raise it a little right?

    Remember a little will do alot so start with just a little bit at a time.

    Before lasers and stuff where available to sight in a rifle or a pistol my dad use to use string and clamps. Not sure how he hooked the string into the barrel, maybe a hole in a spent shell. I remember he would clamp the gun to the bench then measure out 15 yards (about the full length of our house) then tack it and sight it in that way.
  10. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    ok so i took mine apart again to inspect how the receiver mounts to the frame. Mine appears to rest on this little window cut out in the frame for the serial number. If you shim the front edge of that little window it should allow you guys to change the angle of the line of sight to the rails.

    Also when you crack open the case there are these little ribs at the top they ride against the dovetail at the top wich is for the 702 plinkster. This is how the plinkster mounts a scope. The dovetail has ridges, you can look down those ridges and align the frame to those or see how much your shims move the front of the receiver acording to the frame/dovetail

    Does this make sence?

    [​IMG]

    This is the little window on mine where the left side of the receiver on mine is resting on the frame half. If you wedge it where i have it marked in red that will shift the muzzle of the gun. Say a few strips of tape stick it on there then put it all back together and try it.

    [​IMG]
  11. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    Re: Tactical .22 (715T): low and to the left

    Ive bought other guns new and some of them come with a spent shell to show it was fired and fired ok. Ive had other that show a page in the manual how it shot with 3 shots. Some do this some dont if mossberg did this with the plinkster im sure it would cost a little more.

    IMO the problem is 2 different manufacturs ATI makes the shell, mossberg makes the gun. They are just a little bit out is all, i know a little makes a huge difference in sights but thats what keeps the cost down.

    I bought a GSG522 from dicks and i could adjust the windage on my scope but i couldnt adjust the hight (before it would max out) i had to shim the scope under the rear. It was a cheap $40. scope from walmart so i had to raise the rear to bring the (bore site lazer) inside up to the center. The rails on that gun were not accurate either ide say slightly better then the 715T
  12. Dysfunctional

    Dysfunctional .270 WIN

    Messages:
    155
    Re: Tactical .22 (715T): low and to the left

    I have the exact same issue with my 715T flat top when using either the supplied red dot, iron sights or variable zoom scope. I sent it to the warranty center in Eagle Pass, TX towards the end of January. They have confirmed receipt but have no other info for me. I guess I'll find out what they did and how well once I get it back. I suppose I could have worked on it myself but I figured I shouldn't have to on a brand new rifle (especially one that doesn't shoot precisely where you are aiming it - or in this case where you can't properly aim it due to manufacturing quality issues). Situations like this cheapen the Mossberg brand name in my eyes and makes me wish I spent a little more and went with a different make and model from a different manufacturer. I suppose I will be happier when I get it back and everything is fine. I would expect them to go over it and resolve any other issue that may be present before they return it to me. I do not want to play the "send it back" game over and over. I won't resell a bad gun but I would turn it in to the anti's during a buyback to get their money and have a defective gun destroyed. Then I'll go buy a new gun.
  13. Springbok

    Springbok .22LR

    Messages:
    11
    BowerR64,
    Thanks for your thoughtful replies and all the effort you put into them, especially taking your rifle apart and posting photos. I am new to this site, but I can tell that you must be a huge asset to its membership. Thanks again! :)

    My problem is that I don't want to shim anything, or misalign the guts in the shell just to get the guts aligned with a warped portion of the shell. In my particular case, it really wouldn't work anyways. Got hard sights and laser; scope and holographic reticle are on the way. I want to be able to swap those various sights for various shoots. My rear flat top rail dips, rises and bows in different areas down its length. Thus, realigning the guts for my iron sights, will not help with a scope (mounted further forward) or holographic reticle (mounted even further forward).

    I looked at it more today (sorry, still no pics) and the front upper rail does seem straight. Put a straight edge on the rear rail, however, and it literally rocks back and forth. The two halves meet at both ends of the rail, but gradually gape toward the middle. There is a full 1mm gap between the two halves in the middle. The gun shop is discouraging me from taking it apart. But, I am tempted to do so, just worried about warranty.

    I think that the edges of the polymer were not cleaned up very well after it came out of the mold. I may try to clean them up, put it back together, and save myself the hassle that others have had with Mossberg.

    Knowing my luck, Mossberg would return it on the day my son returns to school from summer break!

    Anybody know if taking the shell off voids the warranty? My rifle came without an owner's manual.

    BowerR64, thanks again.

    Cheers,
    Springbok
  14. Springbok

    Springbok .22LR

    Messages:
    11
    Re: Tactical .22 (715T): low and to the left

    Thanks Dysfunctional,
    I previously noted that people with this problem usually have the same issue (low and to the left). However, like me you also have a flat top. Come to think of it, most (if not all) others with this problem also had flat tops. Hmmmm.

    You are right, you shouldn't have to fix a brand new rifle yourself. However, I don't want to have the same experience as GypsmJim. Imagine if I sent it in for a warped rear rail, and they send it back (four months later) having only replaced the butt stock!

    I also have to agree that it cheapens the Mossberg name. The quality control, yes. But even more so with the customer care that I have read about in this forum.

    Thanks again,
    Springbok
  15. DarthJim

    DarthJim .410

    Messages:
    53
    I don't think so... after all, you have to take the shell off to disassemble and clean it. :)
  16. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    Well ill tell ya in all the years ive been into toys and things i never gain a thing returning something. With my luck any time i have ever returned something i wound up with something else that i didnt like. Now IMO this problem is trivial to many other problems that you could have. This is something i think you guys should try and iron out yourself. If it was me i couldnt stand to send it back and be without my rifle for 4 months that woud suck the big nut.

    I remember one time i returned something because it had a cosmetic flaw when i exchanged it i got another one that looked good but it now had a mechanical problem so what did i gain? i gave up one issue for another.

    I agree that it should work perfect out of the box but like i said i think if you guys try and iron it out you will be alot happier and you wont have to be without your gun. I dont think its a bad thing to have to fix something yourself.

    I bougth a sig mosquito with an issue but i chose the gun for its looks. It did not shoot good from the factory i made it shoot good. I didnt give up on it i hung with it till i figured out the issue now i have what i want a good lucking gun that also shoot good.

    What ever you guys decide to do good luck, dont give up on it i think its a great gun.
  17. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    \

    I dont think its the gun or the barrel thats crooked, and i dont think its the rails or the frame thats crooked i think its just how its mounted in the shell thats just a little out. I also dont think it would take much to correct it.

    I know how you feel though that would be in the back of your mind that you had to do something to it to make it shoot good.

    I dont mind helping i think its fun i would hope you guys would help me if i had problems. I just want to help so others have as much fun as im having. I love the gun its a nice simple to use simple to opperate rifle. IMO the less parts a gun has the better
  18. Springbok

    Springbok .22LR

    Messages:
    11
    Aint that the truth! :cry:
  19. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    So is anyone going to try and wedge it and put it back together and see if that is a quick simple fix?\

    Just get some electrical tape, put like 2-3 little squares of tape over the front of the S/N on the receiver put it back together and go try it. If it doesnt work it doesnt work.

    The low will have to be adjusted with a file i believe. If its shooting low the front sight is to tall or the rear sight is to short. Mine was to tall from the factory also i had to file mine down i then decided to change the front sight to a true glow type.
  20. BowerR64

    BowerR64 .270 WIN

    Messages:
    284
    I thought of how you can fix the rear sight. Raise the rail in the back. Use a shim or some spacers and rase just the back of the rail where the rear sight is.

    If the rear sight is maxed up as high as it will go then it either needs to sit higher on the rail or the rail needs to be raise. I would think the rail would be the easier and faster way to raise it.

    Unless you could loosen the rear sight and put something between the rail and the rear sight clamp thing that would raise it a little also. The more you raise it the more you can adjust the rear sight back down and get more compensation.

    I have mine now at 25 yards i put my little round dot (my site is different) on the bullseye but i prefer just under when i shoot. So mine is a little low also.

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