Any home generator geeks here? I learned something interesting about my biggest home gen
- Thread starter nitesite
- Start date
Hi Ernst.
I own several gasoline generators, and my largest is a portable dual fuel electric start gas/propane 12KW which can run my entire house.
I run it every six weeks or so and put a load on it, and it only has +/- 20-hours on it. It's about 4~5 years old.
Yesterday, I tried to start it and nothing. Dead battery? Perhaps. Tried to rope start it, and again I got NOTHING. Damn. I thought rope starting it would work even if the batt is dead. NOPE.
So I put jumper cables on the battery (which is the original OEM) and still NOTHING.
Called tech support and the guy I talked to really knew his stuff.
Turns out the battery has to supply 12V to a solenoid valve on the carb, and if the battery is shot and shorted out the solenoid won't open without 12V to allow fuel. Shorted battery most likely.
He told me that since it is a dual-fuel gas/propane unit I could switch over to propane thereby skipping the carb and solenoid and I could rope start it. Sure enough.... It started right away.
So I bought a new battery today and it started with gasoline instantly. So look out for electric start with a carb solenoid which can stop it running on gasoline if the battery has shorted cells.
Lesson learned.
I own several gasoline generators, and my largest is a portable dual fuel electric start gas/propane 12KW which can run my entire house.
I run it every six weeks or so and put a load on it, and it only has +/- 20-hours on it. It's about 4~5 years old.
Yesterday, I tried to start it and nothing. Dead battery? Perhaps. Tried to rope start it, and again I got NOTHING. Damn. I thought rope starting it would work even if the batt is dead. NOPE.
So I put jumper cables on the battery (which is the original OEM) and still NOTHING.
Called tech support and the guy I talked to really knew his stuff.
Turns out the battery has to supply 12V to a solenoid valve on the carb, and if the battery is shot and shorted out the solenoid won't open without 12V to allow fuel. Shorted battery most likely.
He told me that since it is a dual-fuel gas/propane unit I could switch over to propane thereby skipping the carb and solenoid and I could rope start it. Sure enough.... It started right away.
So I bought a new battery today and it started with gasoline instantly. So look out for electric start with a carb solenoid which can stop it running on gasoline if the battery has shorted cells.
Lesson learned.
hombre243
.30-06
I was homeless for a few years from 2001-07. In one of the places where the homeless stayed I met a kid who got the kick from his Mom...out the door. He was a real brat. Anyway, he came in all sweaty one day...said he had been workin out and needed more carbs. He wanted to bulk up. I asked, You don't eat a LOT of carbs do you? He said yep, all I can get. I asked, don't they give you gas? Ok, I will leave now.
Nitesite, what you found out and did is exactly right. While we have an whole house generator given the unreliable grid here in the mountains I also have a dual fuel portable that works exactly like your's.
Wonder if the battery died of old age or you have a short somewhere that pulled it down. One thing I use on various tractors, trucks and equipment are smart trickle maintainers that keeep the battery fully charger. Seems batteries these day are either very good and last about ten years or pieces of junk good for a month after the warranty runs out.
I'm not sure why you couldn't jump it unless you didn't have a good connection. I'd look at the generator wiring diagram and see if the fuel solenoid is a "safety" switch that prevents the starter from turning over. If not, the starter should have turned over when you jumped it but the lack of fuel shouldn't allow the engine to start.
Best part you were dilligent in your preventative maintenance. So many folks let thier generators sit for years and when the storm is headed their way they find the carb all gunked up or water in the fuel.
As you likely know running the generator on propane is really clean and the oil last much longer. The biggest probelm is ethanol gasoline which shouldn't ever be used in any small engines.
Just a point on our ecomomy and crazy fuel prices. I bought "off road" diesel for my tractors yesterday and it was $5.84 and "non" ethanol gasoline was $6.60 a gallon. Putting us out of business!!!!!!
Regards
Wonder if the battery died of old age or you have a short somewhere that pulled it down. One thing I use on various tractors, trucks and equipment are smart trickle maintainers that keeep the battery fully charger. Seems batteries these day are either very good and last about ten years or pieces of junk good for a month after the warranty runs out.
I'm not sure why you couldn't jump it unless you didn't have a good connection. I'd look at the generator wiring diagram and see if the fuel solenoid is a "safety" switch that prevents the starter from turning over. If not, the starter should have turned over when you jumped it but the lack of fuel shouldn't allow the engine to start.
Best part you were dilligent in your preventative maintenance. So many folks let thier generators sit for years and when the storm is headed their way they find the carb all gunked up or water in the fuel.
As you likely know running the generator on propane is really clean and the oil last much longer. The biggest probelm is ethanol gasoline which shouldn't ever be used in any small engines.
Just a point on our ecomomy and crazy fuel prices. I bought "off road" diesel for my tractors yesterday and it was $5.84 and "non" ethanol gasoline was $6.60 a gallon. Putting us out of business!!!!!!
Regards
The batt was four years+ old and the vibrations probably eventually got to it.
As far as trying to jump start it, the tech guy said that if there were enough cells shorted out it would never get to 12V-DC so the starter wouldn't even spin and the solenoid wouldn't open. Even with jumper cables. Maybe I should have disconnected the batt and run jumpers straight to the starter leads but I was hesitant to try and risk my expensive truck electronics over a stupid generator.
I have only run 90-Octane 100% gasoline with Sta-Bil in all of my generators (I have seven.... call me weird~ but honestly most of them are still unopened in the box), and I drain out the carb bowl before putting it up for another month. Only one, the big one, is electric start and dual fuel.
I just never knew about the carb solenoid needing 12-V to open up the gasoline to the carb. Well, now I know.
So now I know that I can hook up propane and rope start it whenever I want to....
As far as trying to jump start it, the tech guy said that if there were enough cells shorted out it would never get to 12V-DC so the starter wouldn't even spin and the solenoid wouldn't open. Even with jumper cables. Maybe I should have disconnected the batt and run jumpers straight to the starter leads but I was hesitant to try and risk my expensive truck electronics over a stupid generator.
I have only run 90-Octane 100% gasoline with Sta-Bil in all of my generators (I have seven.... call me weird~ but honestly most of them are still unopened in the box), and I drain out the carb bowl before putting it up for another month. Only one, the big one, is electric start and dual fuel.
I just never knew about the carb solenoid needing 12-V to open up the gasoline to the carb. Well, now I know.
So now I know that I can hook up propane and rope start it whenever I want to....
Nitesite, I think some of the manufactures put in a fuel shutoff solenoid because most folks don't turn off the manual fuel shutoff valve and let the carb bowl run dry. Plus today's crappy fuel tends to cause the float needle and seat to leak and you then have either a puddle of fuel on the floor or worse case fuel bypasses the intake valve and get in the oil through the piston rings.
Seven generators - wow! Makes the old saying "one is none, two is one, and three is best" kind of a mute point!
In full disclosure I have four generators - one whole house with automatic transfer if the grid goes down and three portable.
Regards
Seven generators - wow! Makes the old saying "one is none, two is one, and three is best" kind of a mute point!
In full disclosure I have four generators - one whole house with automatic transfer if the grid goes down and three portable.
Regards
Bobster
.30-06
Riding lawnmowers have the same thing, sort of. The solenoids get "lazy" and make the mower hard to start, especially if battery is weak. Depending on the style, you can remove it and "snip" the little pintle that blocks gas. I put in manual petcocks when I do this...
TheRude1
20g
Good post and info. Been looking at whole house generators myself,. Besides oil/filters I'd have 1-2 batteries on standby! And you need to pay attention to the amps you are using to jump start something. If you put to many amps threw something you can frye a lot of stuff that is $$$. 12 volts is 12 volts but 18 amps to 100 amps can frye stuff to crispy and burnt parts
I know... I know... SEVEN generators is very excessive. But I had my reasons. I have kids and grandkids pretty close by. So I bought one for each of their families and they are still new in their box. They are 5000W gasoline with pull start. In the box is the oil and a funnel so all it takes is unboxing them and adding oil and gas. A 5Kw won't run a whole house but it'll give them lights and also power refrigerators and freezers and maybe a space heater etc.
And I have two suitcase sized 2200W inverter generators which are still unopened in their boxes, which I keep in my tornado shelter along with several 100' extension cords and a few suicide cords. I can have them up and running in minutes.
I bought so many when the manufacturer had them on sale with free shipping to my door and no sales tax. So I bought several.... <smile>
I actually only have three out of the box that I use on occasion.
And I have two suitcase sized 2200W inverter generators which are still unopened in their boxes, which I keep in my tornado shelter along with several 100' extension cords and a few suicide cords. I can have them up and running in minutes.
I bought so many when the manufacturer had them on sale with free shipping to my door and no sales tax. So I bought several.... <smile>
I actually only have three out of the box that I use on occasion.
I have a propane Generac RV generater that I use to power my cabin. I also have two large gasoline generaters and a small Honda generator that I use as backups at home
I noticed a while back that the Generac will not run without the battery connected. If you try to disconnect it the motor will stop. One of my gasoline generators is battery start but have not noticed if the battery needs to be full un order for it to start.
@nitesite when you run your generator on propane do you need to turn the propane off when the generator is not running? I've been wanting to replace the generator at my cabin with a multifuel model but none of the ones I've found can stay connected directly to a large tank without shutting off the gas when it is not running.
I noticed a while back that the Generac will not run without the battery connected. If you try to disconnect it the motor will stop. One of my gasoline generators is battery start but have not noticed if the battery needs to be full un order for it to start.
@nitesite when you run your generator on propane do you need to turn the propane off when the generator is not running? I've been wanting to replace the generator at my cabin with a multifuel model but none of the ones I've found can stay connected directly to a large tank without shutting off the gas when it is not running.
I'll be honest, I have never hooked up the propane. It has been kept for when (if) I run out of gasoline. Propane from a 20-lb tank only lasts three hours in my big generator. Uggghhhh. I have four full tanks for "just in case".
My other generators are gasoline only which not only put out more wattage but they run longer. So I store 90-Octane 100% gasoline and treat with Sta-Bil because I won't use 10% Ethanol like I can put in my truck and cars.
Just a reminder of other generator threads:
If you have a portable generator, from one you can carry with one hand to one on wheels, what brand? | Mossberg Owners
Back up power for SHTF | Mossberg Owners
If you have a portable generator, from one you can carry with one hand to one on wheels, what brand? | Mossberg Owners Back up power for SHTF | Mossberg Owners
I wanna generator that concentrated sunlight to produce wood gas from from combustible garden waste, because I am throwing out about 95 pounds a week, when it’s not pruning season. The tree pruners just took off 3 yards of shredded limbs and leaves.
And I just wanna run my air conditioner off of that gas instead of buying electricity for it.
But I live in suburbia and I am surprised that my neighbors do not go apeshit over all the welding and grinding and painting I do now.
If I start building smelly distillation apparatus I will be sure to attract unwanted attention.
And I just wanna run my air conditioner off of that gas instead of buying electricity for it.
But I live in suburbia and I am surprised that my neighbors do not go apeshit over all the welding and grinding and painting I do now.
If I start building smelly distillation apparatus I will be sure to attract unwanted attention.
So you’re saying that the paddle wheel being spun by the fish tank water recirculating pump, and going through a spare 18 speed Chinese knock off Shimano gear cluster, spinning an AMC 12v generator upstream of the step up transformer powering the AC now, is somehow lacking??? Lol
I've heard stories of Germans building distillers on truck beds that would generate carbon monoxide that would power modified internal combustion engines.
Below is an article/video about a California man that wants to produce gas from wood... a man that is NOT @CaddmannQ !
No Gas, No Problem. This California Man Drives a Car Fueled by Wood | wltx.comThe nearest gas station is nearly three-miles from the Nixon family property in Placerville. It’s not a far drive, but Bill Nixon has all the fuel he need in his backyard.
Nixon drives an eco-friendly modified vehicle that runs on wood. Nixon calls the thing the "Backdraft Wood Gasifier.
"Veterans from WWII told me about some taxis over in Europe that ran on wood," Nixon explained to ABC10. "I always wanted to build one and finally we did."
I very much would like to have a wood gassifier. I know the government has posted plans for them online.
I can't figure out what they're doing or how it works.
@nitesite I also didn't know that about generators so I'm really glad that you told me.
I only have two really small genny's. Enough to keep my fridge and deep freezers running and the other is enough for some lights. Maybe a window/box fan. That's about it.
My parents have a 6500w (I think) that I get the pleasure of maintaining and keeping running for my Mom. It's not a battery start though. It's a rope start. I have found that if you want to start it quickly and without pulling your guts out trying to start it, if you have a small spray squirt bottle, if you put some gas in it and squirt a few times into the carb, it primes it really quickly and will usually turn over after a pull or two. Basically the same thing as starter fluid. The carb on moms has this foam type style of air filter so don't overdo the gas squirts on it, but it works. Typically, I just put one good squirt on the air filter. If that doesn't work, I'll give it another.
I've never had to do three.
I can't figure out what they're doing or how it works.
@nitesite I also didn't know that about generators so I'm really glad that you told me.
I only have two really small genny's. Enough to keep my fridge and deep freezers running and the other is enough for some lights. Maybe a window/box fan. That's about it.
My parents have a 6500w (I think) that I get the pleasure of maintaining and keeping running for my Mom. It's not a battery start though. It's a rope start. I have found that if you want to start it quickly and without pulling your guts out trying to start it, if you have a small spray squirt bottle, if you put some gas in it and squirt a few times into the carb, it primes it really quickly and will usually turn over after a pull or two. Basically the same thing as starter fluid. The carb on moms has this foam type style of air filter so don't overdo the gas squirts on it, but it works. Typically, I just put one good squirt on the air filter. If that doesn't work, I'll give it another.
I've never had to do three.
There’s something about violating the laws of thermodynamics that just is not optional.
You “cook” wood inside a container that is closed, so air can’t get in and only the gasses expanding from the wood come out. It’s not much different than cooking sour mash.
If you mix the right amount of air or oxygen with those gases they will burn and you can use them to run an engine.
Of course you must burn wood (or something) outside the container to heat it and cook the wood inside the container. This results in a considerable amount of air pollution. Having a forced air burner to fire your external combustion save a lot of fuel and produces less smoke.
It’s a messy process with a lot of ash cleaning and stuff but it’s well documented that it works. I’ve seen videos of buses going through the jungle with the gasifier built on the tail end of them.
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I got a 5500w pull start in trade a few years ago. My buddy could never keep it running, said it constantly leaked gas. Replaced the bowl gasket and its been fine ever since. He had the gasket seated incorrectly, the design makes it easyroll it when reassembling if you are not really careful. I figured it out because I removed the entire carb to clean it because it had been sitting a few years
I have a Ridged 6800W we bought many years ago as a house/cabin backup. Its got a Yamaha engine. It's been a beast.
The other is a small Honda 2200i. I basically bought it run a cpap and misc. tools in the field. Its quiet, very quiet. Only had one issue so far, last I needed it, the unit would not idle for squat and only worked with the choke half on. I quick YT search when I got home pointed me to a couple things and after 20 minutes of fiddling with its good as new.
The gen at the cabin is an older Generac LP RV generator. It was nice 30 years ago but it's just a pain in my backside now. I have revamped the inverter system we have that has been dead for the last 10 years so the generator is only used for charging the system and for high draw usage. This is the one I would like to replace with a multi fuel unit. I'd like to be able to run it off of our large LP tank as well as have the gasoline option if I need to use it elsewhere.
Generators are one of those oddball things that you don't use o0ften but when you need them, you need them.......sort of like a defensive gun.
I have a Ridged 6800W we bought many years ago as a house/cabin backup. Its got a Yamaha engine. It's been a beast.
The other is a small Honda 2200i. I basically bought it run a cpap and misc. tools in the field. Its quiet, very quiet. Only had one issue so far, last I needed it, the unit would not idle for squat and only worked with the choke half on. I quick YT search when I got home pointed me to a couple things and after 20 minutes of fiddling with its good as new.
The gen at the cabin is an older Generac LP RV generator. It was nice 30 years ago but it's just a pain in my backside now. I have revamped the inverter system we have that has been dead for the last 10 years so the generator is only used for charging the system and for high draw usage. This is the one I would like to replace with a multi fuel unit. I'd like to be able to run it off of our large LP tank as well as have the gasoline option if I need to use it elsewhere.
Generators are one of those oddball things that you don't use o0ften but when you need them, you need them.......sort of like a defensive gun.