My first AR build *Range report*

[John A.]

Re: My first AR build

Yup,

They seem more reliable to me than direct impingement.

I'm unsure what you are trying to say.

If you look at 1:50 of the video, you will see that this monolithic upper is still a Direct Impingement gas system.

How is the upper going to inherently make it more reliable than a regular AR upper and forend?

 

[Ripsnortr]

Re: My first AR build

tnxd... I think your missing Johns point.

A monolythic upper receiver means that the upper receiver and free float forend are all one peice instead of the traditional two peice design.

Upper receier

Free Float Forend

Monolithic Upper Receiver

Direct Impingement means that some of the gasses are redirected from the barrel down the gas tube into the upper receiver and are used to cycle the rifle.

This is in contrast to a piston operated system

Therefore, you could have a monolithic upper WITH a direct impingement system. They are compleatly unrelated as far as reliability is concerned.

 

[oli700]

Re: My first AR build

The piston system is what they were talking about being more reliable on Sons of Guns last night...you saw that monolithic AR and got confused as to what they were talking about…..how did I do?

 

[tnxdshooter]

Re: My first AR build

Doesnt less moving parts (one piece instead of two) make it more reliable performance wise? Like with anything the less moving parts you have the better it operates and the less it cost to fix said parts when shtf.


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[tnxdshooter]

Re: My first AR build

The piston system is what they were talking about being more reliable on Sons of Guns last night...you saw that monolithic AR and got confused as to what they were talking about…..how did I do?

Basically I just couldnt figure out how the piston system would make it anymore reliable.




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[oli700]

Re: My first AR build

The piston system is what they were talking about being more reliable on Sons of Guns last night...you saw that monolithic AR and got confused as to what they were talking about…..how did I do?

Basically I just couldnt figure out how the piston system would make it anymore reliable

I am no expert but the piston runs cooler and doesn’t contribute to dirtying the action. All the crud that is carried in the gas, down the tube and what doesn’t blow out of the receiver is deposited in the action thus contributing to the overall dirtiness of the action. I believe this helps contribute to the overall reliability but it is my opinion it will never be as reliable as an open bolt desighn and people with exp say there are tradeoffs, such as the rifle becoming nose heavy and such. Now as regular citizens that shoot and maybe at most some home defense or reaching real far some sort of fire fight does it make a difference? In my humble opinion no. Does it make a difference to a soldier who is dumps thousands of round like it was nothing and stands toe to toe with another military waging war …again my opinion… yes, no question give them the best of the best and if there is even a thought it might not work then I believe they should scrap it all together, but that’s me….for you and I a direct impingement (gas tube) system is more than reliable enough…..even if society as we know it ended we aren’t going to waging war toe to toe with another military, I believe it will be small skirmishes and guerrilla warfare…not dumping thousands of round but hit and run………rambling now

Now I can see where you are going on the monolithic thing and I agree but instead of the word you chose “reliable” I think we are meaning “durable”. I agree it is probably more durable, but again EVERYTHING has a trade off , just off the top of my head I can see if you do damage a part of that monolithic deal that you have to replace the entire thing instead of just a part of it…..but I am an AR rookie, my carbine is a mini, not the refined accuracy of an AR but I can put all 30 on a head size target at 200 yards so that’s all I require of it.

 

[John A.]

Re: My first AR build

I'll try my best to answer your question, but I don't know how much more simple I can try to make it.

Doesnt less moving parts (one piece instead of two) make it more reliable performance wise? Like with anything the less moving parts you have the better it operates and the less it cost to fix said parts when shtf.

The upper receiver and the forend does not classify as a moving piece. Neither of them actually move or do anything besides house other things. If the gun is assembled correctly, the upper receiver and forend should be mechanically joined by means of the barrel nut and threads on the receiver. I may could see a threaded joint as a weak spot if you're using it for a club, but under normal conditions, they're physically joined anyway.

And if you're looking at it from a SHTF scenario where a part would break or rupture in the gas system (whether direct impingement or piston), there are far more direct impingement gas tubes in existance than pistons and you would be a lot more likely to find a replacement over a piston part. And are less expensive than piston parts too.

And besides, if a piston or gas tube either one were to totally fail and if you couldn't find or fabricate a replacement part, you should still be able to cycle the bolt manually at at worst have a single shot from then on out anyway, so I don't know a whole lot more to say about it.

Basically I just couldnt figure out how the piston system would make it anymore reliable.

A piston doesn't necessarily make it more reliable with proper cleaning and maintenance. If you can even half-ass clean the gun every now and then, and especially when needed, it doesn't really matter which gas system you have, but Oli is correct about a combat situation and in less than ideal operating conditions, a piston doesn't get the bolt and gas key as hot, and doesn't introduce as as much fouling in the reciever, which may keep the gun running longer during a sustained firefight because it (maybe/probably) wouldn't need cleaned as often.

But AR's are super simple and fast to clean if it hasn't been totally neglected and fouled up.

Push the rear pin out, tilt the muzzle down, pull the charging handle back, pull the bolt out, wipe it off, squirt some oil on the contact points, slide the bolt back in, close it back and push the pin back in.

It took you longer to read that last paragraph of how you field strip an AR than it takes to actually do it.

Here is how fast even a more detailed total field strip can be completed. Most of the time, a total field strip isn't necessary.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-_qZFRz9XQ[/youtube]

 

[tnxdshooter]

Re: My first AR build

Thinking of maybe some day building an AR if I can find someone close around thatcan teach me how to do it.


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[Ripsnortr]

Re: My first AR build

Thinking of maybe some day building an AR if I can find someone close around thatcan teach me how to do it.


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I haven't had anyone teach me. Just take some time and look at it in peices. then learn what you can about the particulat peice you want to start on. Best place to start is the lower. Ask questions to friendly folks willing to help out.

A great resource I have used is http://www.ar15.com/. It is a forum dedicated to AR's so the subject matter is more concentrated there than here because Mossberg is only JUST getting into the AR market with a limited selection at this time.

 

[Rossignol]

Re: My first AR build

Thinking of maybe some day building an AR if I can find someone close around thatcan teach me how to do it.

There is this thread on here as well as Lazy's. I think both have been great reading with lots of pics and details!!!

Personally, I'm going to buy one built and reverse engineer it with the help of all the info here so if/when I want to build a second, it will all be at my fingertips, both here and hands on!

 

[VitSports6]

Re: My first AR build

I have been thinking that this will be my next upper receiver.

They make them in left right and ambi

http://www.largrizzly.com/web/guest/ops-4-uppers

 

[VitSports6]

Re: My first AR build

I agree on the ease of building your own AR, If I can, So can you

 

[oli700]

Re: My first AR build

I have been thinking that this will be my next upper receiver.

They make them in left right and ambi

http://www.largrizzly.com/web/guest/ops-4-uppers

No charging handle? One of the things I hate about an AR is the charging handle. I love this receiver
Put this with a piston…..I wish I had more money laying around because that would be an AR I would love to own

 

[John A.]

Re: My first AR build

With the right tools and a little know-how, it's possible to take your time and build an AR from the ground up in less than an hour and a half from start to finish with a coffee break thrown in.

Assembling a lower receiver takes less specialized tools, but with so many springs and detents and things, always takes me longer to build a lower than it does an upper.

There are actually a lot of forums that are dedicated to AR15's.

I try to avoid ar15.com because they seem to have a lot of juvenile members. There is still some good jewels to be found there, but I don't like wearing hip waders to find them.

 

[VitSports6]

Re: My first AR build

I have been thinking that this will be my next upper receiver.

They make them in left right and ambi

http://www.largrizzly.com/web/guest/ops-4-uppers

No charging handle? One of the things I hate about an AR is the charging handle. I love this receiver
Put this with a piston…..I wish I had more money laying around because that would be an AR I would love to own

One nice thing to think about with this upper receiver, Its fairly comparable in price with other uppers, charging handle and BCG together.
AND they are only a few miles away from my house its too bad I cant get a lower from their MFG site, But there is always the next gun show.

 

[Ripsnortr]

Re: My first AR build

I have found AR15.com to be a bit... harsh at times, but I was ablr to sift out what I needed. What are the forums you like to read on the subject? I'd be interested to carrouse them if you don't mind sharing.

 

[John A.]

Re: My first AR build

My main AR hangout is OA2.org. Theyr'e Olympic Arms owners site, much like mossberg owners. Really laid back with a good feel to it.

No bashing of brands, lots of knowlegeable friendly folks who enjoy guns. (and not just AR's)

Recently they started manually approving new accounts if you register due to the hundreds of foreign spam accounts that try to register daily, so if you register/join, let me know what username you used and I'll email my buddy who approves the accounts to get you logged on quicker so he doesn't delete your request by accident, but he usually does pretty good unless you do some crazy user name like viagrafrance or something. And the site owner is a preacher, and he insists on keeping things family friendly, which isnt' really a bad thing. I've been a member there for close to a decade.

68forums is another good one, but they're geared more toward 6.8 caliber and hunting, but again, really good group of guys there too.

I spend very little time at xdtalk in the AR, AK and NFA rooms, but seems like most of the ar crowd there is only looking for approval for their brand choices and to make sure everything on their list is compatible. It gets kind of old and bland looking through a lot of the topics there.

 

[robtech87]

Re: My first AR build

agreed ar15.com can get a bit ridiculous...i mostly just go there to search for something specific...otherwise mostly here or calguns for me

 

[Ripsnortr]

Re: My first AR build

Well, I got a few more things in today. The project trudges along.

In this round;

BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Medium
(VLTOR Patent Pending)

"The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle and extended latches feature internal redesigns to direct the force off of the roll pin and into the body of the charging handle during support hand only manipulations. This new design has a built in backstop engineered into the extended latch and into the charging handle. As the latch is opened up, its’ travel is limited by these flat surface backstops. With this travel limiting feature, the stress is taken off the roll pin, and is now redirected into the entire body of the charging handle.

The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle offers two significant advantages.

1. Since the tiny roll pin is no longer the weak point - it is a much stronger system and tactical latch will stay intact even under repeated support side only manipulation.

2. With the force kept inside the body of the handle, when the handle is pulled directly to the rear, it moves directly to the rear and does not angle off to the outboard side. A much smoother operation.

On the cutaway computer drawings you can see the inside machining of the latch. It shows the 3 inside contact surfaces. (The 2 semi circular cuts are to aid in the removal of dirt and debris that can get inside the handle.)

On the bottom view you can see the outside of the latch itself. It is actually as thick as the handle. This provides 2 additional contact surfaces to insure the force is maintained inside the handle and offers the operator more contact surface to manipulate the handle."

FailZero AR-15 Basic Kit

http://www.failzero.com/index.php

"Complete Bolt/Carrier Group comes fully assembled and ready to drop into any mil-spec AR-15 upper receiver. Kit includes six critical parts that are treated with EXO Technology, a revolutionary surface technology that provides permanent dry lubricity, radically improves the performance of your AR-15 and eliminates the need to apply oil or grease to treated parts for the life of the weapon. Coated parts include:
•Bolt
•Bolt Carrier
•Hammer
•Extractor
•Cam Pin
•Carrier Key

*Note: Kit includes the firing pin"

Brownells Hollow-Ended "Starter" Punches For Roll Pins

"Holds roll pins perfectly aligned for starting correctly. Especially good on the tiny, tough-to-grab ones, or those in tight places. 1/16" is notched to clear M16/AR-15 rear sight. 3.5mm excellent for holding the pin that retains the breech block on Sig handguns. Finish driving with roll pin punch. O/A in chart means "Overall". Available individually or as a set of 5."

I ordered them this past weekend and got them in this week. Another hour of fun opening packages, installing, trying out the results then putting it back into the safe waiting for more. :roll:

I already have a FailZero coated hammer from the Spikes kit, so the extra hammer means I have just gotten my first part for the next build, right?

 

[Rossignol]

Re: My first AR build

Nice man!!! Some really sweet stuff!

I've been thinkin about those charging handles!