Mossberg 835 Ulti-Mag Pump Action Accumag Chokes
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Re: Choke tube caliper question
I don't shoot 00 through it. I only use the gun (with that barrel) for turkey hunting. I swap to a rifled barrel for deer.
There should be no danger in shooting 00 buck through hit, but you will have to pattern it to see what kind of patterns you are getting. (Something that should be done with any load/choke combination used
). If the pattern is acceptable at the yardages desired, then I would say to stick with it. If they are erratic then I would pursue getting the tube removed and replaced.
I don't shoot 00 through it. I only use the gun (with that barrel) for turkey hunting. I swap to a rifled barrel for deer.
There should be no danger in shooting 00 buck through hit, but you will have to pattern it to see what kind of patterns you are getting. (Something that should be done with any load/choke combination used
). If the pattern is acceptable at the yardages desired, then I would say to stick with it. If they are erratic then I would pursue getting the tube removed and replaced.Re: Choke tube caliper question
I shot 2 3/4, 3, and 3 1/2 00buck. Shot well. The 3 1/2 had 2 pellets that was outside the 10" plate at 20yds. The 3" had all within a 9" circle and the 2 3/4 had all pellets within a 7" ring. First time shooting a 3 1/2 out of this gun..... Shoulder breaker.... Haha
I shot 2 3/4, 3, and 3 1/2 00buck. Shot well. The 3 1/2 had 2 pellets that was outside the 10" plate at 20yds. The 3" had all within a 9" circle and the 2 3/4 had all pellets within a 7" ring. First time shooting a 3 1/2 out of this gun..... Shoulder breaker.... Haha
I have a call in to Trulock and I've spoken with a tech at Briley.
Good folks at both places. So far the consensus is that ported choke tubes and FliteControl or VersaTite do not mix. The porting kinda grabs the wad with adverse affects. Trulock has said that while the porting helps with recoil, it may be minimal (parenthetically here in my words, we are talking about 3" magnums), therefore the ported tubes are better served with a more conventional load.
Briley recommends up to a light-full choke for something like 00 buck, while Trulock feels the extra-full can handle the payload. Again, I'm waiting on a call back from Trulock for a little more in depth information.
Neither Briley nor Trulock subscribe to the idea of "wad stripping" choke tube designs such as those made by PatternMaster. At this point I'm in their camp. The idea makes little sense to me. Stripping the cup away in my mind means initiating the process of the pattern opening.
Briley counters the wad stripping idea with their rifled tubes. The tech I spoke with says 30" patterns have been achieved at 70 yards with the 00 buck/light-full choke combination. That's not a solid pattern by any means, but that's every pellet in a 30" circle. My desire is for a palm of my hand sized pattern at 40 yards.
Ill update as I speak with more folks. This may branch off to another topic.
Good folks at both places. So far the consensus is that ported choke tubes and FliteControl or VersaTite do not mix. The porting kinda grabs the wad with adverse affects. Trulock has said that while the porting helps with recoil, it may be minimal (parenthetically here in my words, we are talking about 3" magnums), therefore the ported tubes are better served with a more conventional load.
Briley recommends up to a light-full choke for something like 00 buck, while Trulock feels the extra-full can handle the payload. Again, I'm waiting on a call back from Trulock for a little more in depth information.
Neither Briley nor Trulock subscribe to the idea of "wad stripping" choke tube designs such as those made by PatternMaster. At this point I'm in their camp. The idea makes little sense to me. Stripping the cup away in my mind means initiating the process of the pattern opening.
Briley counters the wad stripping idea with their rifled tubes. The tech I spoke with says 30" patterns have been achieved at 70 yards with the 00 buck/light-full choke combination. That's not a solid pattern by any means, but that's every pellet in a 30" circle. My desire is for a palm of my hand sized pattern at 40 yards.
Ill update as I speak with more folks. This may branch off to another topic.
Just spoke with a gentleman from Carlson Choke Tubes. Real good to talk to, and he was happy to take the time to answer all my questions.
He too confirms ported choke tubes are counter productive for FliteControl loads due to interference with the petals. They do however have several offerings designed around the specialty loads which have appeared over the recent couple years such as Federal Black Cloud and Winchester Blindside to name just a couple. He recommends a non ported tube if using something like the FliteControl.
On the subject of 00 buck loads, or loads suitable for coyote and similar game, he suggested their Extended Super Steel choke. It's a full choke (which would be in line with Brileys suggestion) designed to achieve "excellent" results with steel shot. It's available in three different constrictions, close, mid, and long. He said its also good for use with lead shot at closer ranges using the "long" range tube, closer being interpreted as 35 to 40 yards. Or they could custom make a buckshot tube...
On the science of porting, he says the reduction in recoil is minimal and barrel porting about 6" back would achieve far greater results.
Also just spoke with George from Trulock. He confirms what I'm finding and was also very happy to talk and to listen. He isn't crazy about the ported tubes either but feels merely changing ammo can make a significant improvement even with the factory tube. He really likes the Winchester Longbeard ammo and says they've been seeing impressive patterns. Where their standard is 100 pellets in a 10" circle, they have seen as much as 200 from the Longbeard loads. Is it the load or is it their choke tubes?
For 00 buck to dispatch coyotes, he says a full to extra-full, non ported if using FliteControl.
George is an old school guy, but not so much so that he doesn't have his finger on the pulse of shotshell technology. He also described their methods of patterning which aren't altogether different than the 30" circle we already know about but he mentioned using a piece of clear plastic (the 10" diameter circle) to move around on the paper to center over the "shot core" and then measure against the standard of 100 pellets inside that "kill zone". This may not be new information to anyone but me, I hadn't thought to do it that way.
I believe I'm closing on the direction I want to go.
He too confirms ported choke tubes are counter productive for FliteControl loads due to interference with the petals. They do however have several offerings designed around the specialty loads which have appeared over the recent couple years such as Federal Black Cloud and Winchester Blindside to name just a couple. He recommends a non ported tube if using something like the FliteControl.
On the subject of 00 buck loads, or loads suitable for coyote and similar game, he suggested their Extended Super Steel choke. It's a full choke (which would be in line with Brileys suggestion) designed to achieve "excellent" results with steel shot. It's available in three different constrictions, close, mid, and long. He said its also good for use with lead shot at closer ranges using the "long" range tube, closer being interpreted as 35 to 40 yards. Or they could custom make a buckshot tube...
On the science of porting, he says the reduction in recoil is minimal and barrel porting about 6" back would achieve far greater results.
Also just spoke with George from Trulock. He confirms what I'm finding and was also very happy to talk and to listen. He isn't crazy about the ported tubes either but feels merely changing ammo can make a significant improvement even with the factory tube. He really likes the Winchester Longbeard ammo and says they've been seeing impressive patterns. Where their standard is 100 pellets in a 10" circle, they have seen as much as 200 from the Longbeard loads. Is it the load or is it their choke tubes?
For 00 buck to dispatch coyotes, he says a full to extra-full, non ported if using FliteControl.
George is an old school guy, but not so much so that he doesn't have his finger on the pulse of shotshell technology. He also described their methods of patterning which aren't altogether different than the 30" circle we already know about but he mentioned using a piece of clear plastic (the 10" diameter circle) to move around on the paper to center over the "shot core" and then measure against the standard of 100 pellets inside that "kill zone". This may not be new information to anyone but me, I hadn't thought to do it that way.
I believe I'm closing on the direction I want to go.
S
SHOOTER13
Guest
Good report...glad these manufacturers are taking the time to explain their product in relation to your preferred load.
My search has lead me to a couple manufacturers not mentioned here that I know of.
Colonial Choke and Tool,
http://www.colonialchokeandtool.com/mossberg-835-935/
formerly Colonial Arms
and,
Kicks Chokes,
http://www.kicks-ind.com/product/GTUltiMag12g.html
I've found little in the way of reviews on the Colonial except from SGWorld. Folks who have them like them. They little in the way of the Mossberg 835 but for an extended ported and non-ported version of a turkey choke in a couple constrictions and a flush choke I think.
Kicks gets rave reviews from guys who turkey hunt, but its pricey at $70. It's ported only with the exception of a waterfowl choke designed for use with Federal Black Cloud being the only extended and non-ported tube. I'll also say these are the prettiest chokes I've seen.
Kicks makes it no secret they like Winchester ammunition. They suggest they're best patterns are achieved with loads like the XR and XX. The turkey hunters I've found using the Kicks agree. I've talked with a couple guys, one guy like the 3-1/2" XR and the other likes the 3" Double X. Additionally, among the hunters using Kicks, they say at the $70 price tag, the choke is worth it and they'd do it again. Kicks also makes a couple other types of chokes for buckshot and predators. Among their pages are included recommended loads (length of shell and shot size) for a given tube and constriction. I've otherwise not found too much in the way of video or patterns. Among other forums, Kicks is spoken of as being less popular largely because they don't make an offering dedicated to hevi-shot or hvl.
Too bad I don't have about $400 to spend on choke tubes. I suppose I'd have to buy about $200 in ammo after that however.
If I were buying right now though, I'd have to go with George Trulocks recommendations. Price is part of it, but there seems to be more out there in the way of videos, patterns, and reviews than anything else.
Colonial Choke and Tool,
http://www.colonialchokeandtool.com/mossberg-835-935/
formerly Colonial Arms
and,
Kicks Chokes,
http://www.kicks-ind.com/product/GTUltiMag12g.html
I've found little in the way of reviews on the Colonial except from SGWorld. Folks who have them like them. They little in the way of the Mossberg 835 but for an extended ported and non-ported version of a turkey choke in a couple constrictions and a flush choke I think.
Kicks gets rave reviews from guys who turkey hunt, but its pricey at $70. It's ported only with the exception of a waterfowl choke designed for use with Federal Black Cloud being the only extended and non-ported tube. I'll also say these are the prettiest chokes I've seen.
Kicks makes it no secret they like Winchester ammunition. They suggest they're best patterns are achieved with loads like the XR and XX. The turkey hunters I've found using the Kicks agree. I've talked with a couple guys, one guy like the 3-1/2" XR and the other likes the 3" Double X. Additionally, among the hunters using Kicks, they say at the $70 price tag, the choke is worth it and they'd do it again. Kicks also makes a couple other types of chokes for buckshot and predators. Among their pages are included recommended loads (length of shell and shot size) for a given tube and constriction. I've otherwise not found too much in the way of video or patterns. Among other forums, Kicks is spoken of as being less popular largely because they don't make an offering dedicated to hevi-shot or hvl.
Too bad I don't have about $400 to spend on choke tubes. I suppose I'd have to buy about $200 in ammo after that however.
If I were buying right now though, I'd have to go with George Trulocks recommendations. Price is part of it, but there seems to be more out there in the way of videos, patterns, and reviews than anything else.
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I've always heard good things about Kicks chokes in the turkey hunting community. I had bought one for my 930 once when I found it on sale but never got a chance to use it. I think @John A. has it now, perhaps he can comment if he has put it to the test. I know at the time I bought mine they were not rated for Hevi-Shot. Not sure about now, if that is a concern.
The best performing choke on my Winchester 1300 is the Kicks Gobblin' Thunder .665
Next in line the factory X-Full
Followed by the HS Strut Undertaker, which honestly, performed about half as well as the Gobblin' Thunder choke as evidence by holes in the bullseye.
review with pics
http://mossbergowners.com/forum/index.php?threads/choke-pattern-performance-testing.11051/
Thanks @John A. for your experience here.
I appreciate yall bearing with me as I learn, I'm fascinated, earnestly, with the plethora of choke information. None of it is definitive, it's an ongoing experiment all over the webz.
I received a reply from Colonial, I intend to speak with someone tomorrow. In my searching I can't find anything negative but neither can I find pics or videos and little more than the occasional "you won't be disappointed" on forums. I can't find any serious reviews or patterning.
Here's what I'm gathering on the two types of choke tubes I'm interested in;
Turkey choke exit diameter for the 835 should be between a .690 on the high end (Carlsons has one as open as .705) and as tight as .670 and it would seem that diameter is optimized with #5 or #6 shot in a 3" load. George Trulock said speed kills. It also kills patterns. He is fond of the Winchester loads as is Kicks. The Winchester "high speed" loads has a velocity of only 1300 fps max which I'm certain lends to the sort of patterns some of these folks have experienced and been excited for.
I've only used the Hornady #4 shot thus far at 1600 fps through the ported tube at a diameter of .695. My patterns haven't been impressive and I'm learning why.
Tomorrow, I'm going to obtain full patterns from both 20" guns with the load I have and put up some pics. As I'm able, ill get some more ammo and do some more. Maybe by the fall season we'll have it all worked out!
A brief mention on the other choke I want, a predator/coyote tube.
The suggested tube would be a full to an extra full with an exit diameter around .720 suitable for use with 000 to #4 buck. Plated shot or heavier than lead is preferred with many hunters liking hevi-shot and pellet size in the range of #4 to bb. I did see some patterning with hevi-shot out to 70 yards. Not impressed. While the guy is like "yeah, that's a kill" I'm thinking, only if you can predict where those two pellets you can find are going to go.
I appreciate yall bearing with me as I learn, I'm fascinated, earnestly, with the plethora of choke information. None of it is definitive, it's an ongoing experiment all over the webz.
I received a reply from Colonial, I intend to speak with someone tomorrow. In my searching I can't find anything negative but neither can I find pics or videos and little more than the occasional "you won't be disappointed" on forums. I can't find any serious reviews or patterning.
Here's what I'm gathering on the two types of choke tubes I'm interested in;
Turkey choke exit diameter for the 835 should be between a .690 on the high end (Carlsons has one as open as .705) and as tight as .670 and it would seem that diameter is optimized with #5 or #6 shot in a 3" load. George Trulock said speed kills. It also kills patterns. He is fond of the Winchester loads as is Kicks. The Winchester "high speed" loads has a velocity of only 1300 fps max which I'm certain lends to the sort of patterns some of these folks have experienced and been excited for.
I've only used the Hornady #4 shot thus far at 1600 fps through the ported tube at a diameter of .695. My patterns haven't been impressive and I'm learning why.
Tomorrow, I'm going to obtain full patterns from both 20" guns with the load I have and put up some pics. As I'm able, ill get some more ammo and do some more. Maybe by the fall season we'll have it all worked out!
A brief mention on the other choke I want, a predator/coyote tube.
The suggested tube would be a full to an extra full with an exit diameter around .720 suitable for use with 000 to #4 buck. Plated shot or heavier than lead is preferred with many hunters liking hevi-shot and pellet size in the range of #4 to bb. I did see some patterning with hevi-shot out to 70 yards. Not impressed. While the guy is like "yeah, that's a kill" I'm thinking, only if you can predict where those two pellets you can find are going to go.
Now for my feeble contribution.
Both targets are @ 25 yards with the Hornady 3" #4, VersaTite, 1600 fps.
The first is my control gun, Mossberg 500 Persuader 20", cylinder bore.
125 pellets inside the 10 circle. Not impressive with a few voids in the pattern.
Next is the 835 turkey 20" with factory accu-mag ported turkey choke, .695 diameter.
116 pellets in the circle. There are a couple things which lend to the results in this case I believe. Firstly, the ported choke is not recommended for use with FliteControl or similar loads. The porting interferes with the petals of the wad by slowing it down and stripping it away prematurely. Secondly, from all reviews and indications, the Hornady turkey magnum is a poorly performing load. Finally, the factory tube constriction is likely too open and is at the high end of recommended constriction for turkey loads.
I'll soon be purchasing another load and expect that alone to be an improvement over this combination.
Both targets are @ 25 yards with the Hornady 3" #4, VersaTite, 1600 fps.
The first is my control gun, Mossberg 500 Persuader 20", cylinder bore.
125 pellets inside the 10 circle. Not impressive with a few voids in the pattern.
Next is the 835 turkey 20" with factory accu-mag ported turkey choke, .695 diameter.
116 pellets in the circle. There are a couple things which lend to the results in this case I believe. Firstly, the ported choke is not recommended for use with FliteControl or similar loads. The porting interferes with the petals of the wad by slowing it down and stripping it away prematurely. Secondly, from all reviews and indications, the Hornady turkey magnum is a poorly performing load. Finally, the factory tube constriction is likely too open and is at the high end of recommended constriction for turkey loads.
I'll soon be purchasing another load and expect that alone to be an improvement over this combination.
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I spoke with Miss Traci Denson today of Colonial Choke and Tool.
I asked about not being able to find reviews or video or patterns. She said the owner, (now deceased) never wanted the sort of reviews you see from Carlsons or Trulock out there because someone sees something and expects those results and "hold your feet to the fire" when they don't replicate results. If I'm understanding, they feel the choke tubes will sell themselves on reputation and by word of mouth. Or the interwebz as the case were.
She told me stories of hunters they regularly speak with who are quite serious about turkey hunting. One particularly is their UPS guy who takes two weeks vacation each year to hunt. He uses the extended ported turkey choke for the ...
835!
She said he uses the Winchester XR 3" #5 with much success and said his longest shot was paced off to 65 steps.
The exit diameter of their ported tube is .683 while the non ported tubes are .685 and .690. They do make one flush fit tube for the 835 and I apologize, I didn't inquire as to its purpose, only that it isn't suitable for buckshot. She said the 835 and 935 are becoming more popular but not so much so that it warrants them making buckshot tubes. That is unless they get enough calls for them. I told her I'd have everyone I know call and ask for buckshot tubes.
She also confirmed they used to make the old Star Dot tubes that used to be rather popular.
I only have stories to go on and a handful of shotgunners on other forums saying they're happy with them. Not enough to put the Colonial at the top of my list at a cost of $56 when competitors chokes are selling for $30 to $40, though their non ported tube is $28.
I asked about not being able to find reviews or video or patterns. She said the owner, (now deceased) never wanted the sort of reviews you see from Carlsons or Trulock out there because someone sees something and expects those results and "hold your feet to the fire" when they don't replicate results. If I'm understanding, they feel the choke tubes will sell themselves on reputation and by word of mouth. Or the interwebz as the case were.
She told me stories of hunters they regularly speak with who are quite serious about turkey hunting. One particularly is their UPS guy who takes two weeks vacation each year to hunt. He uses the extended ported turkey choke for the ...
835!
She said he uses the Winchester XR 3" #5 with much success and said his longest shot was paced off to 65 steps.
The exit diameter of their ported tube is .683 while the non ported tubes are .685 and .690. They do make one flush fit tube for the 835 and I apologize, I didn't inquire as to its purpose, only that it isn't suitable for buckshot. She said the 835 and 935 are becoming more popular but not so much so that it warrants them making buckshot tubes. That is unless they get enough calls for them. I told her I'd have everyone I know call and ask for buckshot tubes.
She also confirmed they used to make the old Star Dot tubes that used to be rather popular.
I only have stories to go on and a handful of shotgunners on other forums saying they're happy with them. Not enough to put the Colonial at the top of my list at a cost of $56 when competitors chokes are selling for $30 to $40, though their non ported tube is $28.
Changed up the ammo Winchester Double X, 3", 1-3/4 oz, #5, 1300 fps. This ammo is highly recommended second maybe to the Winchester Long Beard. But this was on sale at Bass Pro for $13 and the Long Beard is $20.
I'll have pictures later but as of right now this is what will stay in the 835 until I get a couple of chokes to try out.
I still didn't see a dense "core" in the pattern but immediately I could see better performance than the Hornady. I counted 166 pellets in 10" vs 116 in the photo above.
There are some differences between the two loads, primarily the Hornady I used is a #4 at 1600 fps. With the Winchester being a #5, I'd have to do the math for the percentage of shot in the circle for a fairer comparison. However, just going by pattern, the Hornady will ride with the 500 20" and not the 835.
The 500 does benefit from the VersaTite in the Hornady but based on early experimenting, premium loads with this wad technology don't mix well with the 835, or at the very least, ported tubes. Which may be common knowledge to all but noobs like me just getting in to this. I may revisit the FliteControl if ever I get an extended, non ported tube.
I'll have pictures later but as of right now this is what will stay in the 835 until I get a couple of chokes to try out.
I still didn't see a dense "core" in the pattern but immediately I could see better performance than the Hornady. I counted 166 pellets in 10" vs 116 in the photo above.
There are some differences between the two loads, primarily the Hornady I used is a #4 at 1600 fps. With the Winchester being a #5, I'd have to do the math for the percentage of shot in the circle for a fairer comparison. However, just going by pattern, the Hornady will ride with the 500 20" and not the 835.
The 500 does benefit from the VersaTite in the Hornady but based on early experimenting, premium loads with this wad technology don't mix well with the 835, or at the very least, ported tubes. Which may be common knowledge to all but noobs like me just getting in to this. I may revisit the FliteControl if ever I get an extended, non ported tube.
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Now some pics;
This is the box of Winchester I mentioned.
This next pic is from the control gun, a 20" 500 Persuader.
This is like a non pattern. I just put a circle near the middle of a bunch of holes. 42 pellets in 10".
Next is the project gun. Still the factory choke, just changed the load.
166 pellets in the circle which is a nice improvement. Progress is being made.
This is the box of Winchester I mentioned.
This next pic is from the control gun, a 20" 500 Persuader.
This is like a non pattern. I just put a circle near the middle of a bunch of holes. 42 pellets in 10".
Next is the project gun. Still the factory choke, just changed the load.
166 pellets in the circle which is a nice improvement. Progress is being made.